Exclusive Interview: In Call With the Commandant - General James F. Amos and the Corps

As the 35th Commandant of the Marine Corps settled into his new assignment, between visits to various climes where Marines are assigned or deployed, he sat down with Leatherneck to talk about the state of the Corps and his direction of march.

Leatherneck: Shortly after becoming Commandant, you landed in an F/A-18 on board USS Ronald Reagan (CVN-76) to celebrate the 235th Birthday with Ma­rines. You were in the back seat on that flight. Can you still fly the aircraft?
Gen Amos: I commanded an F/A-18 squadron aboard a carrier. That was an exciting time. You have to work very hard at those skills to be good at it. And, it is very unforgiving.
A few years later, I came back to Beaufort [Marine Corps Air Station Beaufort, S.C.] to command a fighter group. I went back and carrier-qualified again. I really enjoyed it and it was a personal challenge. I asked myself, “OK, Amos, do you still have it?” Over the two years as group commander, I always flew out with my squadrons to the carriers.

On that flight to Ronald Reagan, I wasn’t used to being in the back seat. But the airplane is so technical, that you don’t want to fly it unless you’re current. This is past the manhood thing. I could do it, but I just don’t have the time to go through the qualifying process. I was in the back seat, but when we approached the ship, it was like I did it yesterday. There is no doubt that I could do it again. It was an exciting time.

Leatherneck: What do your superiors think about you flying around in an F/A-18D and landing on the deck of an aircraft carrier?
Gen Amos: They probably aren’t even aware of it, but Marines are aware of it. That’s the most important audience for me.

Leatherneck: How do you handle be­ing the first non-ground officer Commandant?
Gen Amos: I try to downplay the fact that I’m the aviator Commandant. I never bring it up unless somebody asks. While I don’t set the flying and aviation pieces of my job aside, I don’t try to emphasize them either.

As the Commandant, I’m a Marine officer first. At the end of the day, that’s what is most important. Over the years, I’ve tried to understand and learn everything I could about the ground side. When I com­manded the II Marine Expeditionary Force at Camp Lejeune [N.C.], I spent 95 percent of my time focused on the division and the logistics group. I knew how to command an air wing. Later, as the head of requirements at Quantico [Va.], I spent the entire two years there worrying about my ground brothers and sisters.

Leatherneck: As Commandant, you handle important Marine Corps issues daily, and as a member of the Joint Chiefs of Staff [JCS], you tackle others in the “tank.” You’ve worked in the Washington, D.C., area for some time. Have you noticed much difference in that process since you’ve taken the helm?
Gen Amos: Art, the issues are the same. I worked them in my previous jobs, so nothing has been a surprise. The difference is when they arrive at this office, they are usually in their final stages. We’re not working them as a staff any longer.

The Commandant receives serious “big boy” issues with long-term impacts. I am familiar with them—that’s the good news. Stuff is not coming to me cold turkey. Wearing my JCS hat, the “tank” is the last stomping grounds for issues en route to the Secretary of Defense, the Secretary of the Navy or the JCS chairman for a final decision. It kind of gives an air of more seriousness to it.

Leatherneck: When you became Commandant, you said training and supporting the Marines deployed in Afghanistan remains the Corps’ No. 1 priority. How are they doing over there?
Gen Amos: I spent some days in Af­ghanistan during the recent holidays and I talk to General Mills on the ground every week via video teleconference [Major Gen­eral Richard P. Mills, USMC, commands Marines in Afghanistan]. I have many reasons to be optimistic. The Ma­rines and the coalition forces working the Helmand province in the last 2½ years have done a remarkable job.

In the northeast corner of Helmand, we’re in a pretty tough fight. We will win that fight and drive the Taliban out. We’ve done it all over the province and returned those places back to the people. In some areas, the Afghan National Army has taken over. The police force is coming along too. I am very optimistic about our piece of Afghanistan. This isn’t Marine bravado. We’ve learned lessons after eight to nine years of fighting a counterinsurgency battle in Iraq.

Leatherneck: I understand you’ll be going to Afghanistan every few months, similar to your predecessor. What have you personally observed to warrant such optimism?
Gen Amos: I have several benchmarks to measure effectiveness. When I first went there several years ago, we had about 2,500 Marines in Helmand prov­ince, responsible for 10,000 square miles—a huge area. I visited Marines in forward combat outposts. Some towns were so dangerous that upon landing, you immediately jumped into an armored vehicle or scampered into the outpost. Last year, I went to exactly the same spots and walked out of the airplanes leisurely. In many cases, villagers met us, some bringing loaves of freshly baked bread.

In a little village in the northern part of Helmand, sitting at 8,000 feet, the villagers delivered 23 turkeys to the Marines on Christmas Day. Now, the villagers don’t celebrate Christmas, but they knew the Marines did. A year earlier, it was a very dangerous spot, surrounded by Taliban.

Last year, I walked with the district gov­ernor through towns that once were completely Taliban-run and the scenes of tough fights. I held hands with this fellow as we walked through bazaars and open markets. He took me to a newly opened school, and I sat with the students. One class was young girls. I’m told he was the first district governor in the province to take girls into a school. So, that’s pretty courageous.

This past Christmas Eve, I walked through the bazaar at Marjah with some Marines from 2/6, without body armor, spoke to the locals, took a photo with their children, and ate some good Afghan bread. You couldn’t do that there last year, so yes, I see progress.

Leatherneck: You are the fourth consecutive wartime Commandant that I’ve interviewed. During your watch, is it possible that you could become a peacetime Commandant?
Gen Amos: I hope so. Taking the Marine Corps from where we are now to a scenario similar to our post-Iraq experience would be a wonderful transition. Last spring, we saw the last Marines come out of Iraq. Although we still have 80 Ma­rines doing training missions there, 100 percent of our combat forces and all of our equipment came out. That was a very gratifying feeling knowing that our hard fights had been worth it. I’d like us to come out of Afghanistan feeling the same way, under a victory pennant.

Leatherneck: The Marine Corps has succeeded for decades as a balanced air, ground and logistics team. Is this balanced force understood by people outside of the Corps?
Gen Amos: I don’t think it’s appreciated as it probably should be. We’re going to do our best to change that. As bravado as Marines are, we’re pretty quiet and humble about what we do in places like Helmand. You don’t hear about what I just told you earlier. There’s not a lot of chest beating. There’s a balance between chest beating and making sure the truth gets out. We’re sorting our way through that right now.

When I say appreciated, I don’t mean people don’t love the Corps. I’m talking about fully understanding Marine capabilities—what we bring to the nation.

Leatherneck: You are wrapping up a closely held effort to shape a post-Af­ghanistan Marine Corps. This could be made public before this article is published. I know you can’t go into detail, but what can you tell us about this reorganization?
Gen Amos: I’m excited about it. This is what the Corps will look like when we come out of Afghanistan. The Secretary of Defense directed it. It’s the right thing to do. The last Commandant, I’m aware of, with a similar opportunity to shape the Corps’ future was General Mundy [Gen Carl E. Mundy Jr., 30th Commandant].

About 100 very bright senior Marines from every background worked very hard on this. We looked at the direction the world was heading, where we would fight, our future missions and the capabilities Marine units needed to have. We examined every active and Reserve unit, headquarters, base, air station and our civilian Marine structure.

I met with the Force Structure Review Group team every week. It was lots of hands on, player-coach type of thing. We learned many lessons these past eight years. We tried to apply them to the future with the right-sized units having the right equipment to accomplish what we think the Marine Corps will do in the next two decades. There will be some dramatic changes. For example, our battalions and squadrons may not look exactly like they do today.

Leatherneck: Where are Marines going to fight in the next 20 years?
Gen Amos: We’ll be ready to do full spectrum combat like we did initially in Iraq in 2003. This is the high end and I hope the least likely.

I think the Marine Corps will do its work in developing nations that are developing only because their populations are growing. Poverty, lack of education, unemployment, exploding numbers of young males and extremist ideology will be the norm. People will flock even more to the cities that will be tightly contested by gangs, criminal organizations, terrorists and extremists.

These groups find sanctuary in cities where they become faceless, nameless and hard to deal with. Our role in that irregular warfare environment is a little bit of everything. It’s easier to handle them in the countryside and suburbs.

Leatherneck: Will these gangs have precision weapons, and if so, are we staying on top of that?
Gen Amos: I expect they will have access to precision weapons. That’s what makes our current world and the next 20 years so dangerous. In some cases, they aren’t even nations. They are stateless groups, galvanized around an extremist cause.

Access to cyberspace gives them access to weapons that would only be in a nation-state’s arsenal. The Hezbollah launched an unmanned aerial vehicle out to an Israeli ship and delivered a precision weapon from it. So, here’s a terrorist organization with state-like weapons.

Right now, our biggest threat in Af­ghanistan is IEDs [improvised explosive devices]. That’s hardly a precision weapon, but the Taliban are employing it pretty precisely. When they hit the fourth vehicle in a seven-vehicle convoy, there’s a reason.

Yes, Marines will face people with precision weapons. I can tell you that we do our best to figure out how to negate those weapons.

Leatherneck: Will Marines continue to do humanitarian assistance missions?
Gen Amos: That’s an important part of what we do. When that terrible disaster hit Haiti, seven Navy amphibious ships and 5,000 Marines and sailors spent 45 days there.
Marines came ashore in places where nobody else could, bringing food, water and medical support. We know how to operate in austere conditions. When Pakistan had those terrible floods and monsoons, Marine helicopters from USS Pele­liu [LHA-5] flew 400 miles inland, carrying supplies and moving refugees out of harm’s way.

During those two months Marines from Peleliu were on the ground in Afghani­stan and its Marine Harriers were flying combat missions, Marines of the 15th Ma­rine Expeditionary Unit sailed due west and captured the Magellan Star away from pirates. Our Marines can accomplish a variety of tasks.

Leatherneck: Are you concerned about the dwindling number of people in Congress who served in the military?
Gen Amos: The Pentagon is a good place to get a litmus test as to how things change when the political leadership in Washington changes. Regardless of who’s in charge, there are great patriots in every party who love the military and, in particular, the Marine Corps.

I get asked all the time, “Sir, how many Marines are in Congress today?” That’s one of the facts a Commandant has to have tattooed in his brain. Concern about members of Congress serving in the military implies that only those who serve can really take care of us. Some of our greatest patriots have never served a day, but they are our best sponsors.

Generally, when leadership changes in Washington, the overall fabric of the Marine Corps and the Department of Defense doesn’t change one bit.

Leatherneck: What do you want your Marines to know about your position in “don’t ask, don’t tell”?
Gen Amos: First of all, we’re going to follow the law. I published a message to all Marines [ALMAR 047/10] right after the congressional action to repeal the “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy. I emphasized that as Marines, we abide by the laws of our Nation and we will implement guidance from our chain of command.

We are Marines, first and foremost. We will faithfully execute the new laws and will continue to treat each other with dignity and respect. The Sergeant Major of the Marine Corps and I will personally lead this effort, and we expect, as in the past, that Marines will step out smartly to carry out the new policy as it is refined.

Leatherneck: The Secretary of Defense recently announced the cancellation of the Marine Corps Expeditionary Fighting Vehicle (EFV)—a key part of the Corps’ future expeditionary strategy. What’s next?
Gen Amos: First, Art, I support the Secretary’s decision. I personally recommended to both the Secretary of Defense and the Secretary of the Navy that the EFV be cancelled and that the Marine Corps pursue a more affordable amphibious tracked fighting vehicle.

As the Secretary of Defense recently affirmed, the cancellation of the EFV is by no means a rejection of the Marine Corps amphibious assault mission. I remain committed to develop and field an effective, survivable and affordable new amphibious vehicle … sooner rather than later!

In the interim, we will upgrade a portion of our existing amphibious vehicle fleet with new engines, electronics and armaments to ensure that we are able to conduct ship-to-shore missions until the next generation of systems is brought on line.

Leatherneck: What changes do you have planned for the Marine Corps University [MCU] at Quantico?
Gen Amos: In 2006, General Wilhelm [Lieutenant General Charles E. Wilhelm, USMC (Ret)] headed a study group for 18 months to answer one question: How do you turn the MCU into a world-class organization? Right now, they have great teachers doing wonderful work, but that’s not the issue.
“The Wilhelm Study” produced four to five great recommendations. One is to update our IT network and get us to the 21st century. Another is to double the size of the facilities and modernize. When General Gray [Gen Alfred M. Gray, 29th Commandant] built that facility, he did it very quickly, and it absolutely changed the MCU image and put it on the map. We will double the size and maybe even triple it. We have money in the budget, and that will be done by the end of my four years.

Leatherneck: Although it obviously hasn’t hurt your career, you made a bold move as a young officer by leaving the Corps to fly for a civilian airline. How did this “broken time” come about?
Gen Amos: That was a tough decision. I got out in the late 1970s after a fairly long deployment overseas. Family life is very important to us. We had two young children, and I’d been gone a lot. We looked at it as a family, and I wanted to try something else. I was a captain in the zone for major, and things had gone very well for me at that point.
When we went to my farewell party at the Beaufort club, my squadron and group commanders said so many nice things that on the way home I looked at my wife and said, “I don’t know if I want to do this.” I grew up in a military family and that was all I knew. I wanted to see what was on the other side. I was out about 26 months.

Leatherneck: Would you recommend that to everybody?
Gen Amos: Probably not. The Marine Corps is typically pretty unforgiving about that kind of thing. As a squadron and group commander, I had all these young pilots, especially during the height of the airline hiring, come to me, “Sir, we know you got out.” I never tried to talk them out of it. I gave them both sides of the picture. If people are contemplating testing the outside and then try to come back if it doesn’t work—they need to give that much thought.

While I tell Marines that I truly appreciate their service, I’m past the point of wanting to hang on to everybody and “save” them. I want people to stay for the right reasons.

Leatherneck: You were born in Idaho and graduated from the University of Idaho in 1970. In between, your military family moved around quite a bit. Do you get back to Idaho much these days?
Gen Amos: I haven’t been there in a long, long time. I’m returning on May 13. I recently received an invitation from Duane Nellis, the president of the University of Idaho, to be their commencement speaker. I find that interesting.

About once a year, I have a nightmare that I’m back in college and my degree hinges on finishing one last test. I told Dr. Nellis that story and he said, “Jim, I’m not taking your degree back. I’m going to give you an honorary doctorate.” I’m looking forward to going back.

Leatherneck: I covered your “town meeting” at Quantico. The audience was stirred when you led the Marines there in “The Marines’ Hymn.” I could tell that you were moved too. However, you sang only one verse and left out the one about “the streets are guarded by U.S. Marines.” Was that in deference to your Army and Navy colleagues?
Gen Amos: It was in deference to the 1,400 Marines we had there. Probably a good chunk of them didn’t know all three verses. Since then, we’ve done that a few times.

At the Birthday celebration in Washington, 3,010 people sang all three verses acappella, but the words were written on a big screen. Yes, most of us still get goose bumps when we hear our hymn. It all goes back to being a Marine first. That’s what makes us all special. Being a Marine is more important than being a Commandant.