Marine Corps Gazette author Capt Katie Petronio talks to CNN about her article, "Get Over It! We Are Not All Created Equal," published in the July 2012 issue of the Gazette.
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| For Pvt. Pease | 7 hours 43 min ago |
| MAG-31, HAMS-31 Avionics Technicians 1961-1965 | 12 hours 35 min ago |
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April 26, 2013:
The Marine Corps is facing a host of challenges and must contend with the current fiscal pressure on all of DoD while trying to innovate after a decade of war. It will likely have to reduce its endstrength while adapting to a new threat environment. These challenges should force the Marine Corps to reconsider some fundamental premises today that will help it effectively adapt to the operational environment ten to twenty years from now.
April 11, 2013:
Please keep in mind that my last article about dropping tanks and other such 'heavy' things was not a recommendation that I think the Marine Corps needs to take under serious consideration. Just as today I am not suggesting we drop all of our fixed wing aircraft tomorrow. This series is more of an intellectual exercise about a hypothetical forced necessity, a modified form of the "What now Lieutenant?" question. If Congress provides a manpower cap of approximately 100,000, the new question becomes "what now General (and General staffs)?" I believe this is a useful exercise, and one that could be helpful in putting into perspective the difference between absolute necessity (infantry Marines) and nice-to-haves in the Marine Corps (tanks?).
March 26, 2013:
Just the other day, I was discussing sequestration with a fellow officer. After we got into the discussion of what it means for the Marine Corps, we began to imagine about what would happen if over the next several years there were further cuts to DoD. As something of a thought experiment, we asked ourselves, what would a Marine Corps with an end strength of 100k look like?
March 4, 2013:
As Sequester hits, and the current economic situation suggesting potential for further future cuts, the the US Government, and DoD in paticular, are naturally considering various cost saving measures. One measure that should be implemented, in this author's humble opinion, is a "brevet" system of promotion. Not identical, but similar to our current method of frocking, and also not identical, but similar to the former use of "brevet ranks" by the US Military
March 3, 2013:
Up until last week, in my six years of civil service with the Marine Corps, I had never attended a work-related training, education or professional-development course. They've been offered to me every year, but I was just never interested. A week-long course on conflict resolution in Shepherdstown, WV, sounds like a boondoggle, and when you look at the opportunity cost (a week out of the office, a $4K+ bill for the government, etc.), it just doesn't seem like a lot of value added. For a long time, I'd been hearing a lot of great things from Marine and civilian coworkers about the Institute for Defense and Business's (IDB's) courses, and I thought I'd try one out this year. It was a great decision.
According to LtCol Rathvon M. Tompkins' article To War by Air the next amphibious campaigning of the Marine Corps will probably have a third dimension added to the attack. "Vertical envelopment" is not new to the Corps, but was shelved in early 1944 because the Pacific theater offered little opportunity for the employment of paramarines or airborne troops.
The blast of the Bomb and its tremendous potential made our amphibious planners take time out for another look at the "book." Those of you who are pondering, and who are planning ways and means of circumventing the effect the Bomb might have on present tactical and logistical amphibious concepts, might do well to pause a moment and take a look at Who Said Impossible? (Pg. 10, Jan. 1955 MCG).
With military aviation currently emphasizing jet-propulsion, the fighter planes of the war's beginning seem archaic by comparison. But before too condescending an attitude is developed toward such planes as the Grumman Wildcat, it would be well to look over the record. The record in this case is very vividly described in Capt DeChant's Devil Birds.
This month marks Maj Houston Stiff's debut as a Gazette cover artist as well as his first issue as editor and publisher. The double spread illustrates a small patrol operating on Choiseul. The Marines were from a parachute battalion and that explains the presence of the Johnson weapons.
Maj Houston Stiff's cover drawing depicts a small segment of the fierce action on Betio.
"Mark Fifteen!" Judging from his elated expression, the boot in the prone position seems to have black disks before his eyes. Marines from coast to coast and beyond, are wearing shooting jackets this spring; and the crack of small-arms fire becomes a familiar part of post routine. No live targets this year, but Marines are bound to burn powder, whether or not the targets shoot back.
Marines have patrolled many streets in their time, but none more fascinating than those in China. Maj Houston Stiff depicts two MPs strolling along what might be a hutung in the native quarter of any North China city.
Back in the days before fiber helmets, master sergeants and SSNs, there was a breed in the Marine Corps known to the files as "Gunny." He was a man of dignity, this "Gunny," and had the Marine Corps Manual in his head, a ramrod down his back, and authority in his voice. He's still around, here and there, but mostly he wears bars and leaves instead of chevrons.
In June 1944, the V Amphibious Corps broke away from atoll stepping stones and made a giant stride across the Central Pacific. There was a hot welcome at the beaches there for the 2d and 4th Divisions, and final victory was 12 miles and 25 days away. Long remembered will be Saipan's cane fields and cliffs, caves and civilian suicides.
The lanky captain with the microphone is delivering a running commentary on the demonstration you see in progress in the background. What you don't see is the careful staging and rehearsing which preceded the exercises; for in the Quantico schools, the hours of preparation are far more numerous than the hours of execution.
The scene of the cover will not be familiar to Marines, since the Japanese tanks we met were mostly rather flimsy affairs. Moreover, the Japanese were fortunately somewhat less than clever in their employment of tanks, which was probably very lucky for us. But will it be the same in future wars? LtCol Arthur J. Stuart thinks not, and he's frankly a little worried. His article begins on page 18 of the October 1947 issue.
On the tenth of November, Marine gather for a family ceremony. They hear familiar words-- Article 1-55, Marine Corps Manual. And because the words are familiar, it may be that some of the significance will be lost. Familiar words: "...all that is highest in military efficiency and soldierly virtue... Marines will be found equal to every emergency in the future as they have been in the past..." This is a time when such words should have a meaning.
In the last two great wars the United States has been forced to impose her will on the continent of Europe. Now with planning done on a tri-dimensional, global scale, even this huge target is over-limited. Borrowing a page from the geopolitician's book we must learn to think in terms of heart lands and peripheries. Maj Guy Richards has done this thinking very well in his Target Eurasia and the Next War, starting on page 10 of the December 1947 issue.
It may not be warm and balmy where you are, but you can bet there are Marines in other parts of the world who are sweating out troop and drill and field problems in tropical climes. Of course the daily grind of training is always interspersed with a welcome "take 10" -- time for a smoke, a drink of water, or time to read that letter again. But hovering in the background will be that voice of authority ready with "Saddle up" when the sand runs of the glass.
Before you dash off a letter to Message Center regarding the weird looking 782 gear being carried by the Marines on the cover please check In Brief on page 40 (Mar. 1955, MCG). It will give you a resume and description of the equipment we borrowed from the Equipment Board so TSgt Stanley Dunlap could do a graphic illustration of what tomorrow's best dressed Marine will wear in combat.
The English longbow and the clothyard shaft sounded the death knell of body armor at the Battle of Crecy in 1346. The advent of gunpoweder and changes in tactics completed the coup de grace, and armor lay forgotten as a decadent relic of the age of chivalry. Six centuries later, at the Naval Medical Field Research Laboratory, Camp Lejeune, a man stood up in a vest made of plastic plates and nylon fibers--his colleague fired a .45 at him. The vest and the pioneer withstood the test, and soon after Marines were wearing the new body armor in Korea.
The pyrotechnics you see the evening of the July 4th celebration will pale in comparison with the spectacle afforded by the night firing exercise demonstrations planned for the thousands of Marine Reserves who will attend camp this summer at Marine Bases from coast to coast. Tanks of Charlie Co, 3d Tank Bn, firing on Combat Range #3 in the Fuji Maneuver Area, Japan, produced the unusual color transparency that furnished our cover this month.
The National Matches at Camp Perry, Reserves at summer camp firing the range and the regular run of Marines shooting for annual qualification--all striving to stay in the black. But for all the shooters' ills, the wart-fours and the "Maggie's drawers," there's only on panacea--hold 'em and squeeze 'em.
Although the Geneva Conference is now history, the defense of the Free World is still the paramount issue. Associated with this, therre are other problems which face us--the external threat of the rise of Russian sea power as one of the dominant factors in the alignment of world strength and, likewise, one of the greatest enigmas facing us internally--the allegiance of captured military personnel.
Through an interpretive design, TSgt D.W. Kiser compares the stalemate of positional trench warfare of WWI, the concentrated thrusts and pincer movements characteristic of the mechanized warfare in WWII and Liddell Hart's proposed concept (page 10-Oct. 1955, MCG) for the thermo-nuclear era--"an offensive fluidity of force." Today, with tactics in an evolutionary state, is the time for forward thinking and stimulating military thought. Those who have progressive ideas and encouraged to air their tactical concepts.
Back when battleships had basket masts the Marine in the field shouldered a Krag rifle and ate his meals from a condiment can. But even then, out of the experience that stemmed from the problems of defending advanced bases in the far-flung seaways, was born the amphibious doctrine that led to victory in WWII. The doctrine proved sound and the Corps had its raison d'etre. Today the planning and testing go on--the helicopter replacing the whaleboat and new tactics replacing the old.
In a little over three decades, Marine Air has progressed from using lumbering "Jennies," Fokkers and Ford Tri-Motor aircraft to speedy jet Furys, Panthers and Banshees. Back in the days when wooden "props" pulled wire-strutted "crates" over Nicaraguan jungles, air support for the infantryman was a haphazard, hedge-hopping affai. But the men who experimented with "skivvy" shirts for air panels and "clothes line" communications' pickups, set the pattern and doctrine that has given us the precision teamwork required for our integrated close-air support today.
22 May 1912: First Lieutenant Alfred A. Cunningham, the first Marine officer to be assigned to "duty in connection with aviation" by Major General Commandant William P. Biddle, reported for aviation training at the Naval Aviation Camp at Annapolis, Maryland, and Marine aviation had its official beginning.
In common with every new weapon introduced to the military service, Marine Corps aviation has travelled a rocky and uphill road. Its small size has tended to make the jolts more frequent and severe. Nothing short of the firm conviction that it would ultimately become of great service to the Corps sustained the enthusiasm of the small number of officers who have worked to make it a success. Read the full article.
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Comments
Men vs Women
Yeah, we have be evolved to be the "weaker" person. Who cares about what others say? If you want to do it, do it! Nothing is impossible! I want to be an infantry soildier or a officer in one of the branches of the armed forces, yeah i am a women yet no one can tell me who i am. I am who i am. I can prove them i can do it, maybe not now just everything takes time. yeah, we have 10% less speed but once i read that women do jobs as well sometimes even better than men. We don't always have to use our psycial more than using our brains. Try to advoid conflict. It never said we couldn't hold a rifle. It never said we couldn't break out of another sterotype. There is a glass wall above us if this officer says women shouldn't be infantry that actually makes me want to go more and more into it. Danger and challenge to overcome things that others believe cannot be done is what drives me. Last year the platoon i am in had the reputation for being bad in drill (8th platoon). This is my first year i am a NS-1 our platoon is made up of all but two NS-1's. We are now the 2nd best in drill. Over our battalion. 2nd of 8 platoons. But I helpted to step out of that view on us. I said in the start of the year i would help 8th platoon to get out of their hell hole, All the bad luck, to the person who would become the cadet MCPO. he was a cadet LTJG. I believe he thought i was bluffing. Now i think he believes to. I thank (Former Cadet MCPO) Aquino for that. I am only a NS-1 yet i am a sophomore in high school. i am so glad i tried NJROTC. It has taught me a lot. It comes natural to me. Not to everyone though. I now see my fears in start of the year are nothing. I could of been, should of been, would of been is nothing now its what i cna still do and that is just a split end left open. You choose your path not looking back to describe who we are today.
Wow. The army girl stated
Wow. The army girl stated that she thinks women should be in the infantry in the Corps. But added that she had a very hard time completing a 10 mile hike in 4 hrs. Honey, try a 25 mile force march in under 8 hrs as we have done numerous times. Face it. Women should not be in the infantry or combat arms. They ARE NOT EQUAL.
not equal?
Why aren't women equal to men? I believe the women should be able to join infantry in the Corps. Just because a few females have problems with certain things we shouldn't be able to join. I'm a women and i want to join infantry. Just because a few girls have problems dosen't mean they all do. Honestly we aren't equal but that doesn't mean we can't do the exact same thing as you
For all you women
Yal women think you want to be infantry and think you can handle the harships. If it was so easy for women to get in than a women officer would have passed the infantry school. But no women has. They have all failed. Its not all about equal rights or men are better than women. There is way more in play than any of you guys realize. You guys make the cohessiveness and combat readiness decrease. Only because the anthropology of what the sexes have been doing for years. When I built up a position loosing enough sleep as it was having to fortify it. The last thing I want to have to do is build seperate quarters for women and men. You think this wouldnt happen but look at womens rights groups. They will pass that so I loose more sleep just so you can have a different changing area. I was very upset reading some of your comments and am actually going to leave it with this. When women take the same physical fitness test as the men. Than we can talk about women in the infantry. Until than you dont rate to be in it. 6 pull ups in the marine infantry is the womens physical test for 100% score. 20 is for the men. 18 minute 5k's is what men have to do for 100%. Women are over 22 min. You want to be treated the same and have equal rights as men. But only when it is conveniant to them. Thank you for reading this and do your research on what the infantry actually have to do before saying you want to go. Only cause most likely you wont make it. Now there would be women who might but that still messes up the units combat readiness in many ways.
Yes. Not equal.
First off, women do not have the physical capability of men to serve in combat. Their running speed is reduced by 10%, running endurance around 30%. There is a 23% myelination gap in the prefrontal cortex of their brain, which would explain why the capacity to make split second decisions under stress is greatly decreased, and more effort is generally required on their part to attain a certain amount of cognitive cohesiveness regarding many aspects of physical and environmental endeavors; and skill set retainment after police/fire academies and many foreign military bootcamps is, on average, 14-22% lower than that of their male counterparts. Women have only 60% of the muscle mass that men have and their ability to build muscle is significantly less. So, say all you want that all that is required is more training. There will still be a man who can train just as much, yet see greater results. Women even in non-infantry positions are more susceptible to medical disharge that will keep them from finishing their enlistment and thus, be a waste to the military and taxpayers. Furthermore, they are 4 to 5 times more likely to sustain a knee injury than a man, and God knows how much that would increase in infantry. Due to the admormality of their pelvises, they are also at least 50% more likely to sustain an injury to any aspect of their lower extremities, something that no amount of training can prevent. I am only getting started.
Did you know only 23% of
Did you know only 23% of statistics on the internet are given sources, and the rest are made up?
Absolutely Ridiculous
to generalize the overall capabilities of women over anecdotes and the stories of a few who weren't even infantry-trained. She has done a disservice to her fellow Marines by posing herself as an authority.
Well....
She has a little authority, being a Captain and all. Stating that the costs would vastly outweigh the benefits is not generalizing, that is stating a fact. I know for a fact that a FOB structure and everyday life behind and beyond the wire would be different.
1. The women would need private quarters. This is non-negotiable and this is how it works in garrison. In a normal FOB, the men would sleep where your squad did, to maintain comraderie. Or be placed where you were needed, should space be in short supply (which is most often the case).
2. Men tend to do dumb stuff when danger strikes and women are around. I can not tell you how many times I was told "Don't be a fuckin' hero! Get in there and get out as fast as you can!" Now those words were easy to abide by. But if you throw a female in the mix, and your safe but shes in danger, whos running out there? Your dumb ass is, of course. And you are gonna get waxed. Not saying its wrong, if shit came down to it, I would do it, too. Its in our genetic code.
3. There has NEVER been such an outcry of this before, so....why? My honest opinion is that now that "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" is repealed, now the next big issue is women in the infantry. Look I have nothing against women, and they serve a VITAL ASSET to ground troops all over. FET teams are a huge asset and should always be around, especially while dealing with muslims with their rigid rules. But there is way too much to have to take into consideration, and what do we gain? And can you say "deployment pregnancy"? Think it wont happen? Well in order to prevent it you will need to make sure the troops know that they are not allowed to have se.........Oh wait, were in combat. Why are we talking about sex? Oh right, we shouldnt be. Already too much to worry about.
Maybe someday, we will have a perfect little world where it was like Starship Troopers and you can buddy rush with your female grunts. But hopefully not anytime soon.
You obviously have never
You obviously have never served in a combat situation. Infantry units are close knit . Now, add in a female grunt and the unit breaks down. Chances are the female will be wanting to hump every other grunt in the unit. Then comes all the "I want out of the corps because I'm pregnant" scenarios Think before you speak.
This is a topic that will be
This is a topic that will be settled by politicians and not the Military. Look at the past and you will see this has been done in don't ask, don't tell, women in combat support units, and in some line units.
Most women do not want to serve in the infantry, because they realize it would be tough on their bodies and cause early outs and early retirement for medical conditions. Continually trying to change the military into the society around us isn't going to work either. Less than 1% of the nation now voluntarilly enlist in the service (All Branches). The interest in preserving this country is not as it use to be and comes to light only through vocal acknowledgement during crisis like 911, Pearl Harbor, etc.
As much as I hate to say it, the United States needs to have some form of mandatory military service to keep this nation prepared for any future war. We no longer have the time, distance (due to missiles), to have an opportunity to build a well trained fighting force after we are smashed in the mouth by an enemy. All future wars will not be against Al Quaeda.
Requirement
As a former Marine I firmly believe that aslong as a Marine meets the requriement for a billet; let the Marine do the job.
Lead or GET OUT OF THE WAY!
no such thing as a former
no such thing as a former Marine
Requirements
Women will only pass requirements because democrat politicians lower the standers and that just isn't right. Who do you think will win in hand to hand combat, a women marine, or a russian Spetsnat? The russian because most men are just better than women when it comes to strength and fighting.
Losing Ground as the elite fighting force
Throughout this entire blog there are several points to women and their combat capabilities. OK! Statically, women are strong; this however is not proven in all occasions. All points below point bring up personal values to equality then, political correctness. Is there fairness in combat? Should there be, and do we think the enemy really looks at fairness when we seek to destroy them? Is it fair to put the unit in harm’s way because a few can make it yet, the majority cannot? What will happen should we pursue this venture? Let's look at the structure here. There is limited time and supplies when the bullets start flying. Men in physiological terms are seen as the protector or guardian. Women are very strong and determined and yes, more than capable of moment to moment decisions. However, mentally both sexes have a breaking point and health needs. In combat, you bring only what you need, and time is critical. A man will need certain things to get by as do women right? Let’s look at hygiene. Realistically, we all need to stay clean to stay healthy, OK then. What do the sexes need to accomplish this? Well, water would be an essential to drink as well as bathing moderately. On average, bathing is possible every 30 or so days; maybe. In recent conflicts or if you prefer to call them “wars”, facilities were available because we focus on quality of life, and resource capable. Please do not think this is definite can do! Everything costs extreme amounts of dollars when the locale does not offer what you want.
Ok, are you still with me? Next is physical requirements and training to meet minimal conditioning.
Standards are not a goal but, rather a starting point. In the military, we train to a standard and this brings the individual only to a basic stress and physically level of understanding. Combat is the unknown…. (How does a controlled test really prove you can do something under extreme stress?)
Ok, moving on here… Next, in the physical training area, we look at the Marine Corps requirements.
Too start, the MC has two standards. Males and Females…hmmm… yet each field and rank competes for the same limited gain. (Promotions, Awards and other amenities) Is this equality, and then ask yourself, how is this rational? Apparently, DOD and ever service knows the extreme difference, or the standards would be only one!
So now you’re thinking, “what is the point here?” Well, the confliction gets even greater.
As many probably know, under each standard are levels of quality in scores and the age to which the scores are obtained to compete for the next grade or position. Wait now, it gets even more conflicting on equality.
Let’s talk about ratios. This is something many will deny but, the United States is as a whole is concerned with race distribution above capability. (if you do not be believe this, notice the ratio race inserts on every promote MARADMIN for example.) If you think they promote only on quality, you’re mistakenly wrong!
Pointing no fingers here but what is the right way to go? The discrepancy keeps enlarging and Corps sinks farther and farther from the elite fighting force.
Sure some women are tougher
Sure some women are tougher and stronger, but the government is going to look at it as a whole. Maybe you can pass all the courses and qualifications but what happens when you're out in the field on a 3 day hump with little sleep hauling all your ammo and water and supplies and the your period comes along and your hormones kick in, and then next thing you know the bullets start flying and men are getting hit and you're supposed to be laying down cover fire but instead you drop down and start crying because "it's just too much for you".What happens when you get captured and raped by countless numbers and you don't wanna get tortured so you give away positions and information and you get thousands killed and then they end up raping you some more and then eventually killing you? What happens when women start going into combat and dying and we have noone left at home to have children?
Kathleen Dow
I am a former Army enlisted soldier who served with the 525th MI Brigade (Airborne). I was also a paratrooper. Although our unit was an Airborne unit, not every soldier was Airborne qualified. (Go figure.) However, as an Airborne unit, we had to achieve higher standards on the PT test than regular soldiers. Once or twice a year, we also had to complete a 12-mile march w/rucksack and rifle within 4 hours.
My main point is this: although I was able to meet the standards of the unit, I had to train and condition my body more than the average male to maintain those standards. I barely made the ruckmarches in time because of my short stature and stride while walking. Whenever I had to jump out of perfectly good airplanes, I carried 75 lbs of equipment on my body. That was more than half my body weight! I got injured on my last jump and placed on medical profile. From that point, my career was essentially over. I ended up leaving the Army at the end of my enlistment.
The wear and tear on women's bodies would not be worth the risks of integrating them into the infantry.
i noticed that there
i noticed that there were some injuries to the ankles and legs suffered by marines after they first got to 'stan from jumping the canals with 80-100# packs. how long will the womens ankles hold up?
Yeap
I agree with most of the comments and I'm glad that she wrote and article. I think female Marines need to recognize that over all they're not going to help in a combat role. We can all argue that physically its possible and I've seen first hand that they can "keep up" but do they struggle with alot? Yes they do. Is the mental capacity there. I don't think so at all.
I was a team leader deployed in Sangin, Afghanistan with 3/5. We often had to take a FET team out with us on patrols. If you're not familiar with FET; simply they are a team composed of only females with the mission of talking to female locals since the men only talk to men in countries like that. Who the hell knows if their information extracting did any good. We never saw anything come of it anyways. We were really annoyed at first because female Marines tend to have a huge superiority complex that generally gets in the way of real work. But the first patrol went well and it looked like they could keep up physically. However each patrol after that we started to notice them let their gaurd down and they would bend over to stretch their backs much more often
However the defining day for my outlook on the FET team and woman in combat was right at the start of Nov 2010 we took our first patrol down into the green zone which is an area that is notorious for ambushes and gun fights.
Long story short we did indeed get into a fire fight. We're all firing at the enemy and I yell down the line for one of ANA solidiers to fire his fucking RPG and when I look over, both of the FET team area lieng down not shooting at all. One girl doesn't even have positive control of her weapon.
That was two guns out of the fight, two guns that could have been suppressing the enemy and potentially saving a life. Thank God we didn't take a casualty that day other wise we would have been screwed.
Also in another situation were they had there female Corpman with them. We did take a casulty and their whole team froze up. I remember our other team leader yelling at the team "Help out or get the fuck out the way" as his team worked to get our wounded Marine out of the blast area.
I've heard similiar stories from all over the company and the battalion. Women freezing up or not picking up their damn gun and just firing for suppresion sake.
The whole women equality thing drives me crazy on a more personal level than the work place. Every body is worried about their dignity when they live with the males in combat. If I have to get down to birthday suit and just become immune to feeling uncomfortable then they should too. Sometimes I think they put forth way to much effort to make sure females are pampered in the field. If you wanna roll with the boys you gotta be able to shrug off all the sexist, make me a sand which jokes. It's just how the infantry works, we all bag on each other for laughs. Since laughter is the only thing that keeps you sane sometimes. None of it's personal. In the end we would all take a bullet for each other; and some did.
As the good Cpt said we're war fighters and I just don't think women can fill a combat role. They end up being a distraction more than a help. And as another commenter posted some would just end up humping each other and then that raises a whole nother level of stupid shit to deal with. One person can make the whole unit weak, it's just not a chance most 0311s want to take just for the sake of having a pretty face around.
Yeap
I agree with most of the comments and I'm glad that she wrote and article. I think female Marines need to recognize that over all they're not going to help in a combat role. We can all argue that physically its possible and I've seen first hand that they can "keep up" but do they struggle with alot? Yes they do. Is the mental capacity there. I don't think so at all.
I was a team leader deployed in Sangin, Afghanistan with 3/5. We often had to take a FET team out with us on patrols. If you're not familiar with FET; simply they are a team composed of only females with the mission of talking to female locals since the men only talk to men in countries like that. Who the hell knows if their information extracting did any good. We never saw anything come of it anyways. We were really annoyed at first because female Marines tend to have a huge superiority complex that generally gets in the way of real work. But the first patrol went well and it looked like they could keep up physically. However each patrol after that we started to notice them let their gaurd down and they would bend over to stretch their backs much more often
However the defining day for my outlook on the FET team and woman in combat was right at the start of Nov 2010 we took our first patrol down into the green zone which is an area that is notorious for ambushes and gun fights.
Long story short we did indeed get into a fire fight. We're all firing at the enemy and I yell down the line for one of ANA solidiers to fire his fucking RPG and when I look over, both of the FET team area lieng down not shooting at all. One girl doesn't even have positive control of her weapon.
That was two guns out of the fight, two guns that could have been suppressing the enemy and potentially saving a life. Thank God we didn't take a casualty that day other wise we would have been screwed.
Also in another situation were they had there female Corpman with them. We did take a casulty and their whole team froze up. I remember our other team leader yelling at the team "Help out or get the fuck out the way" as his team worked to get our wounded Marine out of the blast area.
I've heard similiar stories from all over the company and the battalion. Women freezing up or not picking up their damn gun and just firing for suppresion sake.
The whole women equality thing drives me crazy on a more personal level than the work place. Every body is worried about their dignity when they live with the males in combat. If I have to get down to birthday suit and just become immune to feeling uncomfortable then they should too. Sometimes I think they put forth way to much effort to make sure females are pampered in the field. If you wanna roll with the boys you gotta be able to shrug off all the sexist, make me a sand which jokes. It's just how the infantry works, we all bag on each other for laughs. Since laughter is the only thing that keeps you sane sometimes. None of it's personal. In the end we would all take a bullet for each other; and some did.
As the good Cpt said we're war fighters and I just don't think women can fill a combat role. They end up being a distraction more than a help. And as another commenter posted some would just end up humping each other and then that raises a whole nother level of stupid shit to deal with. One person can make the whole unit weak, it's just not a chance most 0311s want to take just for the sake of having a pretty face around.
The big issue
Let's be real, the fucking liberals who have never, and will never be involved with the military in anyway, shape or form or going to take this and blow it out of the water till somebody bends on it. But seriously, we all know that females cannot hack it physically or mentally. If you are around when an MCT platoon with females are doing a hump or other "demanding" training, 95% of the females are falling out and usually crying. The 5% who did make it through still have no idea what demanding is. They are naturally smaller and weaker, although some are bigger and stronger than some men, but the female body cannot endure the constant abuse that the male body can. The female mind is not designed to deal with mental stress like a man's mind is. Yes there are some weak minded men out there who cannot deal with mental stress as well as some women can but the majority of men are better at mentally dealing with the stressful, painful, and intense situations that grunt combat entails. But on the rare case when a women is mentally strong enough to deal with those situations, what happens when her menstral cycle hits and her hormones go crazy, she no longer maintains that mental control she once had. I'm sorry but I've never heard of any combat element that could wait around for a female to get off her period before they could operate.
I went to the combat engineer sapper course at camp Lejune where everyday for 4 weeks we got hazed with a 15ft power pole for an hour before every breakfast, lunch, dinner, and bed with only 4 to 8 guys on the pole (number depended on how many weak dicks dropped from your squad) and in between all that we were doing timed 6 and 8 mile pack runs, breaching fortifications like old school warfare with bangalores and wire cutters and squad rushing the base with 240's. We learned how to set up and safely execute urban demo, designing and usung homemade explosive, and many other technical concepts that used calculations that were life dependent, all while getting less than 4hrs sleep the whole time. I never met a female in the Corps that could have endured the physical aspect, let alone the bootcamp style treatment while trying to learn and execute all the formulas for the explosives on no sleep.
But to me the biggest issue is how in the hell would they integrate females into the infantry. I'm sorry but the fact is you get males and females living out in the field and bored during downtime they are going to start humping like jackrabbits, and will eventually cause very many NJP's and fights between males over a female. Where will they shit, shower, and shave? Or for that matter change clothes? You have no choice but to do all that infront of your guys out in combat, but where will the females do it. We had to do convoy security on a detainee release one time and the command at the prison sent a female gaurd on the 12hr convoy. The female refused to go to the porta shitter on the iraqi fob and when we stopped in the middle of the desert, hours away from towns, she refused to pee even if we made a quick cover blind for her. Unless she pissed herself, she didnt go the whole 12hrs.
What about there periods, cant just stop and change a tampon whenever you want, cant just stop a 5hr foot patrol inside a city and find a place for her to change it. Cant just throw it in the back of an MRAP or floor of a 7-ton. What about yeast infections? What about pregnancy cause she was screwing the whole platoon. And even if there is a possibility that they might could hack and work the bugs out, is it really worth risking the lives of our Marines on an unsure idea just to shut the liberals up? And if they do pass it, they should make a strictly female only infantry platoon and attach them to a fob to do base security. Liberals, those retards will be the end of this country!!
I think you are right; the
I think you are right; the liberals will make the "females in the infantry" issue a reality. Think about it; what else has recently become a reality that most Marines were against. The liberals are going to do what they want, not necessarily what the majority wants. To use your word those "retards" may try to destroy the country...they won't if we vote them out. Now!
the sad truth
a wise man once told me, "women want equality, until they get punched in the face. then the only thing they want is a restraining order."
this wise man is not as wise as you "think"
i promise you ill punch him back .
equality
"i promise you ill punch him back"
if youre still conscious F*cktard
women are not equal to men, nor are they superior, and vice versa, why are you trying to reinvent the wheel?
...idiots.
it doesnt matter you would still want equality. women will never be men. so stop acting like a man. be a women like you were born to be, theres nothing wrong with ithat sweetheart.
So if there was a sinking ship, should we let the men get in the lifeboats before the women and children?
Don't give me that...
So I think it's funny how some chick Marine on a little FET team feels that she would rate to think just because she did a few " hearts and minds" patrols (escorted by grunts of course) that they think they could hack it day in and day out. I'm an 0311 squad leader that recently returned stateside from Sangin, Afghanistan. I never took out the FET for one reason and one reason only, my job was to bring my Marines home alive and I honestly felt that the best chance for that was to not have to worry about some chick holding us back or making us an even bigger target. Also, after a POG on patrol w me got blown up, got lucky just a broken ankle from it, a female he knew was waiting at our patrol base for us to return so they could go somewhere else, and upon her hearing what happened, she started bawling like a baby!!! True story! It's not like the guy was killed or even an amputee! Woman as a whole are weaker in mind and body then men. Get over it and get behind your desk!
...
You know I agree that MAYBE ALL women arent as strong as some men are ..physically wise, it is a fact that our bodies arent equal. But for you to sit behind a DESK and say that men are mentally stronger than women,it is foolish. It is absurd to blame a WHOLE gender because of a few Weak minded women that have crossed your path. Stop being so ignorant and get over yourself Marine.
Don't give me that...
So I think it's funny how some chick Marine on a little FET team feels that she would rate to think just because she did a few " hearts and minds" patrols (escorted by grunts of course) that they think they could hack it day in and day out. I'm an 0311 squad leader that recently returned stateside from Sangin, Afghanistan. I never took out the FET for one reason and one reason only, my job was to bring my Marines home alive and I honestly felt that the best chance for that was to not have to worry about some chick holding us back or making us an even bigger target. Also, after a POG on patrol w me got blown up, got lucky just a broken ankle from it, a female he knew was waiting at our patrol base for us to return so they could go somewhere else, and upon her hearing what happened, she started bawling like a baby!!! True story! It's not like the guy was killed or even an amputee! Woman as a whole are weaker in mind and body then men. Get over it and get behind your desk!
There is no way a woman can
There is no way a woman can physically handle the grunts. Mentally I think women could hack it. Statistically woman are better shots and for Christ sake they give birth! With that said, there is no way on earth they can carry the packs, pull men out, or the like. The other fatal flaw is this: as honorable men, we the marines will not be able to stand by an think rationally as a woman lays wounded, dying and screaming from combat wounds. This will put other marines at risk as we try to save them without any assessment of the combat situation. I realize that this is the problem of the men, but it is irresponsible to risk the security of the country and the lives of men to accommodate the whims of Washington! Sorry ladies, I can't knit and you can't carry a combat load!
So it is an issue if your
So it is an issue if your fellow "Infantry Woman" is down and screaming in pain from her combat wounds, but if a fellow Infantry man is in the same situation it's not as bad?...even better "we the marines will not be able to stand by an think rationally as a woman lays wounded"
Is that right ? "We" as Marines are trained under preasure! ..you should be able to handle such a small situation and focus on your mission whether it is a Male or a Female that is wounded. It would almost be funny to hear a Marine come to me and say "We failed our mission because i couldnt think rationally" ANY Marine that had such an Excuse ..is one Shitty ass Marine !
Focusing on the wrong things again
There are a significant number of people who are completely missing the point of the young Captain's article and interview:
Sure there are a small number of women who can "hack it" when they first join as a Private or a 2nd Lieutenant. What Capt. Petronio says is a simple reality that the loudest voices refuse to acknowledge...that virtually none of those that can "hack it" when they first come in will last long enough to make the MID point a "career" in the infantry, let alone complete one.
Thinking and performing
All, It is a very simple matter of thinking about this in simple terms of performance. I have never seen a hike or run in my 23 years in any non-infantry unit where females were not drops more than males - by considerable amounts. Now if they can't hang on a home station hike or run, WTF makes you think they are gonna do any better in combat!?! That is ridicilous!! AND it has been proven that in the long haul they breakdwon faster and at a higher rate than males...oh by the way there is evidence to back that up.
If you have to have a different PFT/CFT for males and females that should automatically tell you that they are not on a level playing field and combat is not a place to attempt feel-good integration...stop the stupidity and keep the standards high. We are asking for our men to be less warrior and more pc just to accomodate females...why? It does NOTHING for our force, it does NOTHING for our CAPABILITY, and does nothign but distract from the purpose of the Infantry and combat arms in general - to kill the enemy and break things...KISS (that is an acrynom for you who are trying to make this issue come true vice facing reality).
Thinking and performing
All, It is a very simple matter of thinking about this in simple terms of performance. I have never seen a hike or run in my 23 years in any non-infantry unit where females were not drops more than males - by considerable amounts. Now if they can't hang on a home station hike or run, WTF makes you think they are gonna do any better in combat!?! That is ridicilous!! AND it has been proven that in the long haul they breakdwon faster and at a higher rate than males...oh by the way there is evidence to back that up.
If you have to have a different PFT/CFT for males and females that should automatically tell you that they are not on a level playing field and combat is not a place to attempt feel-good integration...stop the stupidity and keep the standards high. We are asking for our men to be less warrior and more pc just to accomodate females...why? It does NOTHING for our force, it does NOTHING for our CAPABILITY, and does nothign but distract from the purpose of the Infantry and combat arms in general - to kill the enemy and break things...KISS (that is an acrynom for you who are trying to make this issue come true vice facing reality).
I am a pretty tough woman. I
I am a pretty tough woman. I do a physically demanding job in a male dominated field. Here's the kicker...I passed the MEN'S physical standards tests to get my position. If there are enough women who can pass the MEN's qualifications to be infantry, perhaps having another Lioness Squad would be a possibility. Ladies, you want the job, you must be able to DO the job as well or better than the men. You can't ask for special priviledges and then call it equality.
where will you dress?
When you are out in the field, far away from the FOBs... with no tents... sleeping in a sleeping bag.... where are you going to dress? When the enemy capture - you will be raped. Where will the hygiene stuff go, if you are lucky to get it shipped in. Yeast infections - live with them... Don't expect the men to carry things for you, or do anything for you that they would not do for a man - it is not fair.
Oh - and please tell command it is ok for the boys to cuss in front of you, including words you may not like. It is a way of life for them, and right now they are all being told that if they slip and use the B word, C word, or any other word deemed inappropriate in front of a girl, they can be brought up on charges - and NJP'd to lose rank or kicked out. Now this is even if it slips out while they are being shot at, blown up, or anything else. These are STUPID rules this pansy administration and the generals are putting down, that are just guaranteed to get any female fragged. signed... concerned mom
I think you make an excellent
I think you make an excellent point. If a woman can pass the male standards she should be given the oppurtunity to do infantry.
MEXICAN womens in infantery
hello, I think the woman is now ready for everything, and more a woman belonging to a country that is a world power, I can not believe that they themselves think that they could not belong to the infantry happened to gender equity ?
as may be permitted in MEXICO women belonging to the infantry and eua not? is clear that within a year the first women graduating Marines officers of the heroic military academy, knowing how I would love for a Mexican woman CAN DO IF A MAN DOES WHAT IN THE AMERICAN INFANTRY AND CAN NOT A WOMAN?...
MEXICAN WOMAN BEST MARINE?
Your grammar is horrible…
Your grammar is horrible… proofread your comments. That's the first step about joining the Infantry… we have to know what you are talking about.
MEXICAN womens in infantery
hello, I think the woman is now ready for everything, and more a woman belonging to a country that is a world power, I can not believe that they themselves think that they could not belong to the infantry happened to gender equity ?
as may be permitted in MEXICO women belonging to the infantry and eua not? is clear that within a year the first women graduating Marines officers of the heroic military academy, knowing how I would love for a Mexican woman CAN DO IF A MAN DOES WHAT IN THE AMERICAN INFANTRY AND CAN NOT A WOMAN?...
MEXICAN WOMAN BEST MARINE?
more sexual harassment
We already have to do all these sexual harassment class that take time out of our very busy schedual of training. In an Infantry world there is no male and female latrins or heads, there is bushes or a rock to go behind. Also there is no showers so when we infantry soilders wants to bathe we stripp down and bathe. Doing that with females in the AO (area of operations) would be another power point presintation cutting into our training schedual and also mission time. And when we around females we have to be on our P's n Q's because we don't want to be that next one getting busted down for saying something that offended her. Infantry is the only MOS that a guy can be a guy and not get any trouble for it. If I want to scratch my balls I can without getting repramanded.
Top 9 Reasons Women Can’t Join The Infantry
10 They’ll break a nail
9 They’re afraid of spiders and snakes
8 They’ll use up our water rations to wash their hair
7 The farts at night will scare them
6 The other sounds at night will disgust them
5 We can’t talk to them. About: NFL, MLB, NBA, IBF, MLS, PGA, NHL, UFC, NASCAR and especially not LFL
4 They can’t target shoot bugs with their pee
3 They’ll want to have sex with us2 They won’t get our jokes
1 They’ll be so duped up on testosterone that they’ll grow beards, but that’s OK they blend right in
this is a joke
10. not all girls are dumb bimbos that cry when they break a nail
9. i'm a girl and i'm not afraid of spiders or snakes
8. not all girls are bitches that will complain if they can't wash their hair everyday
7. most girls that have boyfriends deal with their farting on a day to day basis
6. see number 7
5. i can talk to you about any of those things and then some
4. this is true but the right girl will find that hilarious and entertaining
3. good idea crossing that out
2. if they're funny jokes, we'll get them
1. while that's obviously not something that would happen, it is pretty funny.
OH and to all guys who don't think girls can handle the word bitch and cunt you obviously deal with pansy ass girls all the time. I agree with the people that have legitimate arguments, like our bodies aren't built for strenuous physical activity and we have different hygenic needs. You are obviously an idiot though if you think THIS is why women shouldn't join the infantry. And if this was one of your "jokes", it was a bad one.
sincerely,
a 21 year old tattooed librarian that hates pansy girls that you're talking about
To the 21 y/o librarian
Where can I get your number?
this is a joke
10. not all girls are dumb bimbos that cry when they break a nail
9. i'm a girl and i'm not afraid of spiders or snakes
8. not all girls are bitches that will complain if they can't wash their hair everyday
7. most girls that have boyfriends deal with their farting on a day to day basis
6. see number 7
5. i can talk to you about any of those things and then some
4. this is true but the right girl will find that hilarious and entertaining
3. good idea crossing that out
2. if they're funny jokes, we'll get them
1. while that's obviously not something that would happen, it is pretty funny.
OH and to all guys who don't think girls can handle the word bitch and cunt you obviously deal with pansy ass girls all the time. I agree with the people that have legitimate arguments, like our bodies aren't built for strenuous physical activity and we have different hygenic needs. You are obviously an idiot though if you think THIS is why women shouldn't join the infantry. And if this was one of your "jokes", it was a bad one.
sincerely,
a 21 year old tattooed librarian that hates pansy girls that you're talking about
One Subject
that hasn't been touched, is the fact that there WILL be fraternization. I do not care what anyone says, I did deployments in 04-06 in Fallujah (the worst time to be there) and there was fraternization going on between the women & men out there.
Well put
Thank you for understanding how the Marine Corps works. I hope a lot of people listen to her and understand that she is absolutely right, especially during the cut-backs on the Marine Corps.
Women can't hack the Infantry
I was an 0311. It is the most physically demanding job you can possibly do, it is nonstop wear and tear. Infantry requires stamina above all else, but it also heavily requires strength and agility. It also requires a great deal of mental stamina, you will be performing very arduous tasks in all weather types and all conditions. I am sorry but women can't hack it, they can't carry the weapons, fire accurately, fill sandbags during torrential freezing rain, pick up their waterlogged gear and hike 15 miles, dig a fighting hole and crawl in and sleep for 4 hours, get up and repeat the process or worse. They will become a burden and a distraction to the mission. I guess some grunts could get laid out in the field though.
Thank you Ma'am
Finally, thank you ma'am for telling your story and your views on this issue from a women's perspective, especially a female officer who has seen combat. We have all these female liberals and feminists that believe that women can do everything men can do, they can to a certain point. People don't realize that a female's body is different than a male's body, a prime physical example is bone density and muscle structure. Honestly, I can go on all day explaining why women should not be in the 03xx field, I'm not saying they can't see combat but just not a 03xx
Im suprised
In uniform? big no no.
An excellent and insightful position.
This woman, this fine Marine officer is thinking clearly and not blinded by liberal rhetoric stiupiduty. I applaud her fortitude, insight and initiative.
Women in the Infantry
The larger issue is not whether women should be allowed in the infantry, but how the CMC is going to bring it about. How much longer, and how many more times, do we have to see that the Marine Corps is not the place for affirmative action and similar agendas?
Can women do the tasks demanded of them in the infantry? Yes some can. Infantry as an MOS though is a more demanding field than the general concept of every Marine a rifleman. The CMC and his lackeys will not open the field so that women who want to can, but they will make a policy that a certain percent of infantry must be women, or a certain percent of women in the Corps must be represented in the infantry.
Physiologically are women capable of long term wear and tear to the same extent that their male couterparts endure? How many women could hump full pack, and an M2 with its tripod?
Should women be allowed to serve in the infantry? Sure! And the standard should not be adjusted for height or gender. And if they fail SOI, what then?
The larger issue is that the CMC is reflecting the socialist agendas of his commander-in-chief, and the policy makers and the CMC are not genuinely considering what is best for morale and esprit de corps.
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