The Marine Corps Times recently published a handful of articles in regard to opening Infantry Officer Course (IOC) to females and the possibility of integrating women into the infantry community. In mid-April the Commandant directed the “integration” of the first wave of female officers into IOC this summer following completion of The Basic School (TBS). This action may or may not pave the way for female Marines to serve in the infantry as the results remain to be seen. However, before the Marine Corps moves forward with this concept, should we not ask the hard questions and gain opinions of combat-experienced Marines (male and female alike) as to the purpose, the impact, and the gains from such a move? As a combat-experienced Marine officer, and a female, I am here to tell you that we are not all created equal, and attempting to place females in the infantry will not improve the Marine Corps as the Nation’s force-in-readiness or improve our national security.
As a company grade 1302 combat engineer officer with 5 years of active service and two combat deployments, one to Iraq and the other to Afghanistan, I was able to participate in and lead numerous combat operations. In Iraq as the II MEF Director, Lioness Program, I served as a subject matter expert for II MEF, assisting regimental and battalion commanders on ways to integrate female Marines into combat operations. I primarily focused on expanding the mission of the Lioness Program from searching females to engaging local nationals and information gathering, broadening the ways females were being used in a wide variety of combat operations from census patrols to raids. In Afghanistan I deployed as a 1302 and led a combat engineer platoon in direct support of Regimental Combat Team 8, specifically operating out of the Upper Sangin Valley. My platoon operated for months at a time, constructing patrol bases (PBs) in support of 3d Battalion, 5th Marines; 1st Battalion, 5th Marines; 2d Reconnaissance Battalion; and 3d Battalion, 4th Marines. This combat experience, in particular, compelled me to raise concern over the direction and overall reasoning behind opening the 03XX field.
Who is driving this agenda? I am not personally hearing female Marines, enlisted or officer, pounding on the doors of Congress claiming that their inability to serve in the infantry violates their right to equality. Shockingly, this isn’t even a congressional agenda. This issue is being pushed by several groups, one of which is a small committee of civilians appointed by the Secretary of Defense called the Defense Advisory Committee on Women in the Service (DACOWITS). Their mission is to advise the Department of Defense (DoD) on recommendations, as well as matters of policy, pertaining to the well-being of women in the Armed Services from recruiting to employment. Members are selected based on their prior military experience or experience with women’s workforce issues. I certainly applaud and appreciate DACOWITS’ mission; however, as it pertains to the issue of women in the infantry, it’s very surprising to see that none of the committee members are on active duty or have any recent combat or relevant operational experience relating to the issue they are attempting to change. I say this because, at the end of the day, it’s the active duty servicemember who will ultimately deal with the results of their initiatives, not those on the outside looking in. As of now, the Marine Corps hasn’t been directed to integrate, but perhaps the Corps is anticipating the inevitable—DoD pressuring the Corps to comply with DACOWITS’ agenda as the Army has already “rogered up” to full integration. Regardless of what the Army decides to do, it’s critical to emphasize that we are not the Army; our operational speed and tempo, along with our overall mission as the Nation’s amphibious force-in-readiness, are fundamentally different than that of our sister Service. By no means is this distinction intended as disrespectful to our incredible Army. My main point is simply to state that the Marine Corps and the Army are different; even if the Army ultimately does fully integrate all military occupational fields, that doesn’t mean the Corps should follow suit.
I understand that there are female servicemembers who have proven themselves to be physically, mentally, and morally capable of leading and executing combat-type operations; as a result, some of these Marines may feel qualified for the chance of taking on the role of 0302. In the end, my main concern is not whether women are capable of conducting combat operations, as we have already proven that we can hold our own in some very difficult combat situations; instead, my main concern is a question of longevity. Can women endure the physical and physiological rigors of sustained combat operations, and are we willing to accept the attrition and medical issues that go along with integration?
As a young lieutenant, I fit the mold of a female who would have had a shot at completing IOC, and I am sure there was a time in my life where I would have volunteered to be an infantryman. I was a star ice hockey player at Bowdoin College, a small elite college in Maine, with a major in government and law. At 5 feet 3 inches I was squatting 200 pounds and benching 145 pounds when I graduated in 2007. I completed Officer Candidates School (OCS) ranked 4 of 52 candidates, graduated 48 of 261 from TBS, and finished second at MOS school. I also repeatedly scored far above average in all female-based physical fitness tests (for example, earning a 292 out of 300 on the Marine physical fitness test). Five years later, I am physically not the woman I once was and my views have greatly changed on the possibility of women having successful long careers while serving in the infantry. I can say from firsthand experience in Iraq and Afghanistan, and not just emotion, that we haven’t even begun to analyze and comprehend the gender-specific medical issues and overall physical toll continuous combat operations will have on females.
I was a motivated, resilient second lieutenant when I deployed to Iraq for 10 months, traveling across the Marine area of operations (AO) and participating in numerous combat operations. Yet, due to the excessive amount of time I spent in full combat load, I was diagnosed with a severe case of restless leg syndrome. My spine had compressed on nerves in my lower back causing neuropathy which compounded the symptoms of restless leg syndrome. While this injury has certainly not been enjoyable, Iraq was a pleasant experience compared to the experiences I endured during my deployment to Afghanistan. At the beginning of my tour in Helmand Province, I was physically capable of conducting combat operations for weeks at a time, remaining in my gear for days if necessary and averaging 16-hour days of engineering operations in the heart of Sangin, one of the most kinetic and challenging AOs in the country. There were numerous occasions where I was sent to a grid coordinate and told to build a PB from the ground up, serving not only as the mission commander but also the base commander until the occupants (infantry units) arrived 5 days later. In most of these situations, I had a sergeant as my assistant commander, and the remainder of my platoon consisted of young, motivated NCOs. I was the senior Marine making the final decisions on construction concerns, along with 24-hour base defense and leading 30 Marines at any given time. The physical strain of enduring combat operations and the stress of being responsible for the lives and well-being of such a young group in an extremely kinetic environment were compounded by lack of sleep, which ultimately took a physical toll on my body that I couldn’t have foreseen.
By the fifth month into the deployment, I had muscle atrophy in my thighs that was causing me to constantly trip and my legs to buckle with the slightest grade change. My agility during firefights and mobility on and off vehicles and perimeter walls was seriously hindering my response time and overall capability. It was evident that stress and muscular deterioration was affecting everyone regardless of gender; however, the rate of my deterioration was noticeably faster than that of male Marines and further compounded by gender-specific medical conditions. At the end of the 7-month deployment, and the construction of 18 PBs later, I had lost 17 pounds and was diagnosed with polycystic ovarian syndrome (which personally resulted in infertility, but is not a genetic trend in my family), which was brought on by the chemical and physical changes endured during deployment. Regardless of my deteriorating physical stature, I was extremely successful during both of my combat tours, serving beside my infantry brethren and gaining the respect of every unit I supported. Regardless, I can say with 100 percent assurance that despite my accomplishments, there is no way I could endure the physical demands of the infantrymen whom I worked beside as their combat load and constant deployment cycle would leave me facing medical separation long before the option of retirement. I understand that everyone is affected differently; however, I am confident that should the Marine Corps attempt to fully integrate women into the infantry, we as an institution are going to experience a colossal increase in crippling and career-ending medical conditions for females.
There is a drastic shortage of historical data on female attrition or medical ailments of women who have executed sustained combat operations. This said, we need only to review the statistics from our entry-level schools to realize that there is a significant difference in the physical longevity between male and female Marines. At OCS the attrition rate for female candidates in 2011 was historically low at 40 percent, while the male candidates attrite at a much lower rate of 16 percent. Of candidates who were dropped from training because they were injured or not physically qualified, females were breaking at a much higher rate than males, 14 percent versus 4 percent. The same trends were seen at TBS in 2011; the attrition rate for females was 13 percent versus 5 percent for males, and 5 percent of females were found not physically qualified compared with 1 percent of males. Further, both of these training venues have physical fitness standards that are easier for females; at IOC there is one standard regardless of gender. The attrition rate for males attending IOC in 2011 was 17 percent. Should female Marines ultimately attend IOC, we can expect significantly higher attrition rates and long-term injuries for women.
There have been many working groups and formal discussions recently addressing what changes would be necessary to the current IOC period of instruction in order to accommodate both genders without producing an underdeveloped or incapable infantry officer. Not once was the word “lower” used, but let’s be honest, “modifying” a standard so that less physically or mentally capable individuals (male or female) can complete a task is called “lowering the standard”! The bottom line is that the enemy doesn’t discriminate, rounds will not slow down, and combat loads don’t get any lighter, regardless of gender or capability. Even more so, the burden of command does not diminish for a male or female; a leader must gain the respect and trust of his/her Marines in combat. Not being able to physically execute to the standards already established at IOC, which have been battle tested and proven, will produce a slower operational speed and tempo resulting in increased time of exposure to enemy forces and a higher risk of combat injury or death. For this reason alone, I would ask everyone to step back and ask themselves, does this integration solely benefit the individual or the Marine Corps as a whole, as every leader’s focus should be on the needs of the institution and the Nation, not the individual?
Which leads one to really wonder, what is the benefit of this potential change? The Marine Corps is not in a shortage of willing and capable young male second lieutenants who would gladly take on the role of infantry officers. In fact we have men fighting to be assigned to the coveted position of 0302. In 2011, 30 percent of graduating TBS lieutenants listed infantry in their top three requested MOSs. Of those 30 percent, only 47 percent were given the MOS. On the other hand, perhaps this integration is an effort to remove the glass ceiling that some observers feel exists for women when it comes to promotions to general officer ranks. Opening combat arms MOSs, particularly the infantry, such observers argue, allows women to gain the necessary exposure of leading Marines in combat, which will then arguably increase the chances for female Marines serving in strategic leadership assignments. As stated above, I have full faith that female Marines can successfully serve in just about every MOS aside from the infantry. Even if a female can meet the short-term physical, mental, and moral leadership requirements of an infantry officer, by the time that she is eligible to serve in a strategic leadership position, at the 20-year mark or beyond, there is a miniscule probability that she’ll be physically capable of serving at all. Again, it becomes a question of longevity.
Despite my personal opinion regarding the incorporation of females into the infantry community, I am not blind to the fact that females play a key role in countering the gender and cultural barriers we are facing at war, and we do have a place in combat operations. As such, a potential change that I do recommend considering strongly for female Marine officers is to designate a new secondary MOS (0305) for a Marine serving as female engagement team (FET) officer in charge (OIC). 0305s would be employed in the same way we employ drill instructors, as we do not need an enduring FET entity but an existing capability able to stand up based on operational requirements. Legitimizing a program that is already operational in the Corps would greatly benefit both the units utilizing FETs and the women who serve as FET OICs. Unfortunately, FET OICs today are not properly screened and trained for this mission. I propose that those being considered for FET OIC be prescreened and trained through a modified IOC with an appropriately adjusted physical expectation. FET OICs need to better understand the infantry culture and mindset and work with their 0302 brethren to incorporate FET assistance during specific phases of operations to properly prepare them to serve as the subject matter experts to a regimental- or battalion-level infantry commander. Through joint OIC training, both 0302s and FET OICs can start to learn how to integrate capabilities and accomplish their mission individually and collectively. This, in my mind, is a much more viable, cost-effective solution, with high reward for the Marine Corps and the Nation, and it will also directly improve the capabilities of FET OICs.
Finally, what are the Marine Corps standards, particularly physical fitness standards, based on—performance and capability or equality? We abide by numerous discriminators, such as height and weight standards. As multiple Marine Corps Gazette articles have highlighted, Marines who can run first-class physical fitness tests and who have superior MOS proficiency are separated from the Service if they do not meet the Marine Corps’ height and weight standards. Further, tall Marines are restricted from flying specific platforms, and color blind Marines are faced with similar restrictions. We recognize differences in mental capabilities of Marines when we administer the Armed Services Vocational Aptitude Battery and use the results to eliminate/open specific fields. These standards are designed to ensure safety, quality, and the opportunity to be placed in a field in which one can sustain and succeed.
Which once again leads me, as a ground combat-experienced female Marine Corps officer, to ask, what are we trying to accomplish by attempting to fully integrate women into the infantry? For those who dictate policy, changing the current restrictions associated with women in the infantry may not seem significant to the way the Marine Corps operates. I vehemently disagree; this potential change will rock the foundation of our Corps for the worse and will weaken what has been since 1775 the world’s most lethal fighting force. In the end, for DACOWITS and any other individual or organization looking to increase opportunities for female Marines, I applaud your efforts and say thank you. However, for the long-term health of our female Marines, the Marine Corps, and U.S. national security, steer clear of the Marine infantry community when calling for more opportunities for females. Let’s embrace our differences to further hone in on the Corps’ success instead of dismantling who we are to achieve a political agenda. Regardless of the outcome, we will be “Semper Fidelis” and remain focused on our mission to protect and defend the United States of America.




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Comments
Women in comPat
First off its combat with a B, if youre a man and weight 125 lbs your have issues. I know a few 150 pound guys that can do that when I was in the grunts and a couple more web I latmoved to recon. So stop your bitching and accept the fact that the majority of women will not be able to do the job of an infantryman. I went 3 1/2 months before my first non baby wipe shower last deployment. We were all fine cuz none of us bled once a month. I'd like to see all of the pro infantry men and women actually go thru a work up ad combat deployment with a grunt battalion then tell me if you still want to do it.
Sun
Your spelling is horrible and what you say isn't even legible.
You say, "That's sexist."
I say, "Reality is sexist."
A sexist is a person isn't a egalitarian and accepts the biological reality of men and women.
So yes, I'm a sexist.
Nice to meet you.
I'm one of them. I'm a 21
I'm one of them. I'm a 21 year old grunt squad leader. Your attempt at faltering this math has flaued.
- "You don't fall out of combat like some do during a run. In combat, we call these individuals casualties"
ah yes, the mortar hike
I have to agree with you on this one. People are overlooking the fact that it is not just being in the infantry that these women need to worry about, but they first need to get through IOC. Theres more than a couple events that I can't see more than a handful of women making it through. If they do, good luck being accepted by your lance corporals as the first female platoon commander.
RE:I'll eat my hat
One name. Alicia Weber. This woman isn't a marine, but then again, how many male marines can match up to this record holder:
-At the age of 13, she was benchpressing 220 pounds while only weighing a measly 95 pounds.
-She also did 27 consecutive pull-ups (chin goes over the bar with a pronated-grip and then arms fully extend before going back up) at roughly around the same time.
-When she was 17, she ran her second 10k race and was the 19th women to pass the finish line at the time of 36:41.
-When she got in senior year, she was the only US track/cross country athlete to qualify and compete in sprints and distance events (e.g. 400m, 800m, 1500m, 3000m, 5000m, 10,000m, and cross country) on the national level
-When she was 22, she'd do 50 chin ups and 30 pull ups consecutively.
-If you check the pull ups/chin ups record, you would see her name in every occasion other than those more than 12 hours. What does that mean? That means that she can do 30 times what you challenged when it came to the pull ups.
Yeah, that's pretty much the only woman I can think of who can do that. Other than that, I might suggest Joan of Arc and Mulan.
Bottom Line
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(Hope you get the pun, yeah, it's not that funny) This is my point to remember
Yes there is a woman currently who can do all that, but since she is not in the military, I'd suggest the government to not be foolish with all this nonsense. We're fighting a war where we want our service men and woman to come back home alive. If you want them to come back in caskets, then by all means, please lower the standards (very heavy sarcasm.)
Equality is and illusion
Good article. I'd settle for all Marines competing for promotion with the same physical standards. Are they going to gender norm IOC in the same way they have "fixed" the CFT/PFT in order to make women competitive? Women are not (at any level) as strong, fast, or physically capable as their male counterparts, look at the Olympics. This does not mean that women are not physically fit or are not great Marines, but the average 120lb woman (or man for that matter) would struggle to pull a 180-200lb Marine from a battlefield or burning vehicle. Equality is a zero sum game.
Disagree
It's nice to an essay written on this subject from the perspective of a serving female marine. But does her experience invalidate the wants of other women - now or in the future? I know that if the infantry were closed to men, I would feel discriminated.
Somewhere out there is a woman who wants to go infantry, and can hack it. Why do we not allow her the opportunity?
Don
http://carryingthegun.wordpress.com
Because allowing her does not
Because allowing her does not add to the overall quality of our forces whose sole mission is to meet our enemies face-to-face and engage in direct combat. That's why. At some point, she will become a distraction. She'll either fatigue and have her rucksack divvied out amongst everyone else, she'll get pregnant (or worse) or any other plethora of "what if's" as it relates to drama within a combat unit.
Wow
Really? Pregnant? Distraction? You should be ashamed of yourself for spewing that garbage. This isn't 1945 anymore.
Denial Is A Psychosis
Navy Strives to Retain Pregnant Sailors http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0%2C13319%2C152426%2C00.html
"The Navy's most recent survey found 14 percent of all women in the Navy were single mothers in 2005, up from 11 percent in 2003 and 7 percent in 2001."
Rape Epidemic Plagues U.S. Military http://morallowground.com/2011/02/18/rape-epidemic-plagues-u-s-military/
Navy Captain Loses Career http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/01/04/us-usa-navy-videos-idUSTRE7035EV20110104
"The Navy has been rocked by sexually charged incidents in the past, including the 1991 Tailhook scandal in which more than 100 Navy and Marine Corps officers were accused of indecent behavior and sexual assault against scores of women.."
Denial Is A Psychosis
Navy Strives to Retain Pregnant Sailors http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0%2C13319%2C152426%2C00.html
Navy Captain Loses Career "The Navy has been rocked by sexually charged incidents in the past, including the 1991 Tailhook scandal in which more than 100 Navy and Marine Corps officers were accused of indecent behavior and sexual assault against scores of women.."
Wow
You're right, it's not 1945, it's 2012. Even so, what entire group of men do you know who... besides the obvious - tend to deal with less women for months at a time than the average Joe - wouldn't find a common interest woman distracting?
Females in combat
So far, no one has brought up the inevitable sexual harassment problems that would be caused. Imagine trying to run a platoon with the drama that always accompanies having females in a unit. Then stack the stress of combat on top of that. As the deployment went on you might eventually be looking at harassment, assault, hostile environment-it boggles the mind.
Sun
You must be amazed because in 1945 they had more sense then you.
You should be ashamed over the fact that it was MEN who died in those wars (as well as most wars) and yet you still populate this garbage about equality.
Show some respect.
1945
OOOOHHHHHHHHH! but I disagree. This is and always has been "1945". Women ARE not PHYSICALLY capable of handling the day to day rigors of infantry combat troops
Marine / Cop
Oh, PLEASE!
I'm a female vet and I was DISGUSTED with the number of women who got themselves pregnant in my unit to get out of field duty. Out of a unit of 16 grunts on paper, we had 11 that actually worked; the rest were pregnant or on maternity leave. And three of those told me point blank that they didn't like going to the field so they got pregnant. I, along with a couple other women and the men, had to take up their slack. Standard was three rotations a month in the field for my MOS. After the Baby Spree, I was out there 21 days out of every 30, which directly resulted in injuries to my knees and put me out of the service permanently. Maybe an extreme example, but them's the facts. I am FAR less worried about sexual harassment or men being "distracted" by a woman's presence than I'm worried about women being out pregnant and leaving everyone else to do their job for them while Uncle Sam and the USMC play daddy to these single military mothers. I would LOVE to see some statistics on the number of women who turn up pregnant right before deployment. They would be mind-boggling.
Common Sense
Let me make it simple - IT IS NOT ABOUT THE INDIVIDUAL!!! If we do ANYTHING to change the coprs in any fundamental way it should be for ONE SIMPLE REASON...based on one simple question: Does this make us a better fighting force? (PERIOD)
When you cannot definavitely say yes then we should not do it. You could go back and look at any improvement we have made some things are window dressing like uniform changes - but when we have different standards for the PFT/CFT or women serving at all are the standards equal? If not then the difference detracts from our FIGHTING ability...and hence DETRACTS from our Corps. But regardless of your position the reality is that I would take any ramdomly selected group of male Marines and compare that to any hand selected group of women Marines and when ALL things are considered the grunts is no place for a woman...the physical demands are too great and they WILL NOT enhance our ability to fight.
DJ
Yup
Ha, you are your common sense have no place in the new military dominated by politically correct agendas for elected official buying off constituencies.
We were a harder force when we had squad bays and "quality of life" was not the buzzword of the day. There were fewer suicides because we looked after each other and privacy was sacrificed for team. Marines could not hide from the group and decend into darkness and despair.
Oh, and such an environment was not so great for gays and women but I promise you we were a better Corps.
Yes!
I completely agree!
Questioning common sense
"...I would take any ra[n]domly selected group of male... and compare...."
Okay, let’s do an honest comparison of ability.
Scene A: The male who didn’t play sports in high school, joins the Corps. He is otherwise in good shape and is healthy, but because he did not play sports, he hasn't had the physical conditioning of sport athletes. He joins and boot camp is hell. He's physically weak so the DIs force more PT onto him. But because he has male hormones, his body begins to get use to the physical demands. The now stronger boot, goes into SOI, where again the process is repeated. The soldier is even stronger than before and feels very confident about his ability to perform well at special training. But rather than ‘train up,’ he instead goes straight into whatever school. But during the initial screening week, he fails because of poor physical fitness and mental preparedness and is dropped. He returns to his unit and is sent to Afghanistan where he performs well enough in combat.
Scene B: A male who plays a physically demanding sport in high school, joins the Corps. He is in good shape and is healthy. Because of his sport, he’s also had to weight train and knows how to fix his mindset to lift a weight he didn’t originally think possible. He joins and boot camp is hell. Because he’s physically strong, his DIs single him out even more. And because he has male hormones, his body begins to get use to the new increased physical demands. The now stronger boot, goes into SOI where again the process is repeated. However because of his sports days, he knows the importance of conditioning his body and so prior to entering special training, he instead opts to ‘train up.’ He researches the physical standards and exercises until he can meet them. Only then does he begin his special training. During the screening week, he performs physically well but experiences great mental stress. But thanks to his learning how to adjust his mindset, he does well and is sent to Afghanistan where he performs well in combat.
Scene C: A female who either did play a physically demanding sport in high school or did not, joins the Corps. She is in good shape and is healthy. Boot camp is hell. But she is now stronger than she was before and now thinks she’s in the best shape of her life, just from boot camp. She immediately enters her occupational training as there is no SOI for females. Very likely, her job is not so physically demanding but she keeps her PT scores up and is in good to decent shape. She has pending orders to Afghanistan and is to receive 1 week of special training: mainly consisting of pat downs, searches, and cultural awareness. She is sent to Afghanistan where she performs well due to her ability to interact with all segments of the population and resolve Afghan male-US male conflicts. She carries her rifle and is ready to respond to fire as she is often on the ground moving on foot in enemy territory. However because of code that prohibits females from combat, she, her FET, and her command play rotation and mission-naming games in order to bypass that code.
Now, physically – when during a woman’s training would she have had the opportunity to build up the physical ability that so many claim she needs to be an effective infantryman? How is it that even without that special ability FETs are still highly effective?
Training isn't about holding hands
My training wasn't focused on getting me to meet standards-standards were something we had to live up to. A lot didn't make the cut. What are you suggesting?
FETs are highly effective, they are a crucial cultural interface that allows access to denied areas of the population. But, they are not grunts.
The author's point is women
The author's point is women can't hack it, at least as long as men can. No amount of equality-pushing is going to change this.
That's right
And a truly modern woman is fine with this.
It's not about what they WANT
Combat ain't about what you WANT, sweet heart.
Combat doesn't care about what you WANT, or the wants of other women. It's about surviving.
The Infantry IS closed to women, so feel as discriminated as you want. This shit is real, and it's NOT somthing to use to further equal rights or a political agenda. Screw politics. It's not a freakin' joke.
Nut up, or shut up. We aren't all created equal. If you were a grunt, you would understand. Thank god you aren't. We don't have time for this crap in combat. War, the actual fog of war, the confusion, the pain, the adrenaline, the will to win, the screaming, the blood. This is no place for a woman. No matter how many pull-ups she can do.
Everyone Benefits
Capt. Petronio writes that "we haven’t even begun to analyze and comprehend the gender-specific medical issues and overall physical toll continuous combat operations will have on females."
Based on the high level of orthopedic/muscular/overuse injuries suffered by service members, I would suggest we haven't begun to comprehend the physical toll that continuous combat operations will have on anyone, male or female. It doesn't become a problem only when women experience the consequences. If the integration of women causes the services to think about long-term physical toll and how that might be ameliorated, everyone would benefit.
It's better to gather information in a systematic way, as the Marine Corps intends to do with integration of the Infantry Officer Course, than it is to rely on opinions or predictions on what would happen. The benefit of this approach will be to discover whether arbitrary limitations on assignments are helpful or unhelpful.
A former Air Force officer and author of "A More Perfect Military: How the Constitution Can Make Our Military Stronger"
http://www.oup.com/us/catalog/general/subject/Politics/AmericanPolitics/...
read the article
The author here is not reccommending arbitrary limitations. She is reccomending specific reccommendations based on facts, statistics and her own personal experience. Your reference to an article written by an Air force officer does nto help your cause. There are no ground combat operations in the AF so that article would have no specific relevance to this one.
I would like to thank the Captain for her honest assesment. As a former Marine I am proud to see that my beloved Corps still has officers with the courage to tell the truth. Not just to follow the politically corect BS that is spewed as fact when the obvious truths are not considered.
Ground Combat
That will come as news to the USAF JTACS and Combat Control Teams that are embedded with the Army infantry and the Special Operations teams.
Ability, Not Gender Should Drive Assignments!
Just as male Soldiers or Marines who cannot meet the physical or mental requirements to excel as a combat troops are assigned other jobs, female Soldiers and Marines who can meet the physical and mental challenges of combat a combat job because of their gender.
Job Well Done
Great job with this article Captain. Well thought out and well presented.
History will repeat itself
One thing we all need to keep in mind, especially those of you who think women who can "hack it" should still be allowed into the infantry (armor, artillery, etc.), is that the type of combat we have seen over the last 10 years pales in comparison to the type of combat seen in Vietnam, Korea and WWII. While experiencing the business end of an IED, patrolling dismounted for hours on end in full gear in 120-degree heat or returning fire in a skirmish is by no means easy, it is, however, a walk in the park when compared to what our predecessors had to go through. And, ladies and gentlemen, that sort of force-on-force combat will one day again visit us. Don't be foolish enough to think that counter-insurgency warfare, with no front line, is the way of the future. That would be your first mistake. Your second mistake would be to compromise the integrity and lethal effectiveness of our combat arms by allowing women into them when we all know (c'mon, put your ideology aside and be honest with yourself) they would not be able to sustain 30, 45, 60 days or more on the line fighting a well-armed and determined enemy - mentally nor physically.
But, go ahead, let females into the combat arms. You can swell your chest with pride and pat yourself on the back because, finally, equality has at long last won out. I suspect you'd also be the first to gasp, "how could this have possibly happened?" and find a dark corner to hide in when a battalion landing team or Ranger company gets waxed because the weak links in its chain were of the female variety.
History will repeat itself
Exactly. We weren't marching in and out of a FOB in Viet Nam. Weeks out in rotting clothes was more the norm. Lower standards and expectations for one group and you lower them for all. My Lai in Viet Nam was an example of this since Army OCS standards were lower to give us a Lt Calley.
Small correction
Females are already allowed to be armorers. They have been for quite some time.
Are you retarded?
Dont confuse being an Armor officer/NCO with being an armorer- one is responsible for maneuvering and emplying a 70ton machine and the other fixes broken site posts on a rifle.
Let them volunteer for the fight and the suffering
The physical and mental tolls the Captain talks about are also exacted upon men. After repeated combat missions, men also experience loss of motivation and high attrition rates... injuries and psychological traumas. Does the Captain feel that women should only be permitted in combat if they can be exempted from its consequences? War is hell. Its toll can be unpredictable and grave, no matter your gender.
Captured soldier
When a male is captured by the enemy, men can handle the torture and blood of battle. When a female soldier is captured in battle, it negatively impacts the entire USA military operation. The enemy can use the female screams at night, over loudspeakers and we will surrender.
Men battle, women heal wounds. This is either on the playground or in battle. Nature.
Greg
Child Birth
I want my right to birth a child... don't tell me that I CAN'T because that would be discrimination...
I think the article highlights some very valid points. Maybe we have some sort term gain... the long term consquences of a life in the infantry typically result in many senior NCOs getting something replaced. Even as an infantry officer, many men have physical problems from the poundings they take in training and combat over the first five years.
Women are tough (you kind of have to be to bear children), but it is a different kind of tough.
When bullets start flying, ideaology, great intentions, and gender-equality don't mean a thing. Women are great fighters and great leaders... I think no one will ever dispute that, but where you fight and how you get there is often determined by physiology, not just strength of character.
Tell you what? You let me bear kids, I'll be happy to let you wear 40 lbs of body armor and hump and 80 pound ruck up the side of an Afghan mountain for a year long deployment. Now do three or four of those like most of our career Soldiers and Marines. Think I'm exagerating? Tell that to paratroopers and grunts that are doing it right now?
Until then, I'll leave you to your epiderals, and I'll keep popping vitamin "M".
Stop Taking Vitamin M
From someone who spent 20 years listening to our "caring active duty medical community" and commanders, stop popping vitamin M. Motrin is doing nothing but masking your real injuries and you are getting worse every day you ignore the real pain.
Make the docs fix you, and don't take "no" for an answer. Our VA is overwhlemed because we do such a poor job of caring for our troops - Vitamin M is the most wide-spread example of a negigent military medical community.
Begging the question
Your comment presupposes that women don't want men to be able to bear children. Personally, I'd be happy to share that burden.
WAR
Men are for fighting war ,I am happy to stay at home with my children ,Many of us women do not want to be in competition with you guys.
Its a fact most guys are stronger than women.
They don't allow women in the
They don't allow women in the infantry. Women in the US armed forces are assigned to a desk job or something but they are not allowed in the infantry. agent hypothécaire and prêts hypothécaires
Great Article
This certainly is a heartfelt personal account. Many broad-thinking men who believe that women can and should do what they feel they are qualified to do have thought of non-specific, but gender-related, reasons that women might not be well-suited for serving in the Infantry, among other intense specialites.
Those voices were not heard by the DoD - maybe this warrior's message will get through to the ideologues and stop the madness.
One correction, the Army Infantry is not open to women (yet), but calls for particiaption in Ranger School Training have gone forward and I epxect to see similar reports resulting from that expereince as from this Marine's experiences. Men drop out of Ranger School at a rate of 70-80%, women will only be lower due to the small numbers volunteering, but the real percentages would be much higher.
Women in Ranger School
http://weaponsman.com/?p=2814
this is the very thing that worries me
Sergeant Major, Dennis L. Smith
"The three events that cause most students to recycle or fail Ranger School are the Ranger Physical Fitness Test (49x Push-ups, 59x Sit-ups, 5-mile run in under 40x minutes, and 6x Pull-ups) land navigation, and foot march. Success in those events significantly increases your chance of graduating."
And so this worries me. Not the standard, but rather no mentioned was again made of how prepared the females going into Ranger School were. Was only general fitness recognized? I sincerely hope these females are not coming straight out of body camp.
I hope that time was initially spent doing at minimum 60 or more push ups, 70 or more sit ups, and at least 10 pull ups. These females should have had practice marching with gear. As well as making the run. BEFORE entry. I don’t pick these numbers randomly. They are feasible. Very.
This is what I'm talking about and what I sincerely hope that if brass, if policy makers are reading this -- do not just throw females into the fire. Where raw physical strength is required, she will most likely fail. And when she does, many will say, "See, told you. Guess we have to lower the standard." No you do not have to lower the standards.
NO. NO. NO. Give females a buffer zone of preparation. Give them time to practice. Six pull ups, is not unreasonable to someone who has practiced this beforehand. Like I said, a prepubescent gymnast can do this.
No male goes straight into Ranger School out of boot camp. Even after SOI, the ones I’ve known worked their butts off to train up for school. I sincerely hope they are not saying, well, these females have high PT scores based on the general PT events, they'll do okay.
Why do soo many sabotage in order to justify the results. This kills me. It really hurts.
Training Up???
If the Army and Marine Corps can afford to set aside time to 'train up' females, imagine how high we could move the standard if we treated males the same way!!
The military doesn't "prep" the males!
You keep throwing out this idea that the military should set aside an additional amount of training for females so that they "might" be able to meet the standards. You continually fail to realize or choose to be ignorant of the lost time and the inefficiency of this suggestion! You want the military to waste money ATTEMPTING to prepare women for a role that we can already-medically-prove that they cannot handle for the same sustained timeframe. So, let’s take six months and prep 20 females who volunteered, ALL of whom will fail to complete the infantry training course over the next 29 days. During that same six months and 29 days, we could have trained an additional 100 males, of whom only about 10 will fail! Overall, we KNOW that females CANNOT maintain the same stamina as males over a long course of time - regardless of physical fitness, so we can waste 6+ months of training, time and money or we can USE that training, time and money to have soldiers ready to go to combat!
Even worse, you want to instill this "prep" time under the guise of making things "equal?"! Male Soldiers, Marines and Sailors who join aren't given any special "prep," so how is that "equal?" Heck if active duty personnel want to join the Navy Seals, Recon or Ranger School, they don't get extra "prep" from the military - those individuals have to put in their own time, energy and effort in order to meet those higher standards! If a female wants to try out, then put in your own damn efforts
You for some reason and all the Femi-Nazis and liberals think that it is the job of the military to make "employment opportunities" for Americans - especially women. Sorry to pop your bubble, but that is NOT the purpose of the military!
The US Military is for the sole purpose of supporting and defending the United States, her people and the Constitution! Any change, ANY CHANGE, that does not benefit the military to accomplish this role (not the individual, but the service as whole) then it is a DEADLY idea! We are all taught, very quickly, that there are no individuals in the Marine Corps.
Military changes for the benefit of the individual, instead of the service as a whole, will result in more dead Americans than what is necessary! But people like you are willing to sacrifice those few, useless Americans, so long as you get one woman to serve in an infantry unit! Most of us are not willing to sacrifice more American soldiers so as to make ONE person happy!
The US Military "discriminates" against MEN all the time! If a Marine cannot keep up during physical training, he isn't promoted, he is passed over for MOS offers and ultimately he is discharged or not allowed to re-enlist! If a Marine causes disruption of the cohesion in a combat unit, he is discriminated against and is kicked out of the unit or even worse, marked that they "would NOT want to go to combat" with that Marine - his career is OVER!
The military isn't about what is best for the promotion and career paths of neither FEMALES nor MALES; it is about what is best for the protection of the United States! Any idea or change that does not OBVIOUSLY add to the current combat efficiency of the services is a DIRECT THREAT to the lives of the great men and women who volunteer to serve and to the United States as a whole!
The military doesn't "prep" the males!
You keep throwing out this idea that the military should set aside an additional amount of training for females so that they "might" be able to meet the standards. You continually fail to realize or choose to be ignorant of the lost time and the inefficiency of this suggestion! You want the military to waste money ATTEMPTING to prepare women for a role that we can already-medically-prove that they cannot handle for the same sustained timeframe. So, let’s take six months and prep 20 females who volunteered, ALL of whom will fail to complete the infantry training course over the next 29 days. During that same six months and 29 days, we could have trained an additional 100 males, of whom only about 10 will fail! Overall, we KNOW that females CANNOT maintain the same stamina as males over a long course of time - regardless of physical fitness, so we can waste 6+ months of training, time and money or we can USE that training, time and money to have soldiers ready to go to combat!
Even worse, you want to instill this "prep" time under the guise of making things "equal?"! Male Soldiers, Marines and Sailors who join aren't given any special "prep," so how is that "equal?" Heck if active duty personnel want to join the Navy Seals, Recon or Ranger School, they don't get extra "prep" from the military - those individuals have to put in their own time, energy and effort in order to meet those higher standards! If a female wants to try out, then put in your own damn efforts
You for some reason and all the Femi-Nazis and liberals think that it is the job of the military to make "employment opportunities" for Americans - especially women. Sorry to pop your bubble, but that is NOT the purpose of the military!
The US Military is for the sole purpose of supporting and defending the United States, her people and the Constitution! Any change, ANY CHANGE, that does not benefit the military to accomplish this role (not the individual, but the service as whole) then it is a DEADLY idea! We are all taught, very quickly, that there are no individuals in the Marine Corps.
Military changes for the benefit of the individual, instead of the service as a whole, will result in more dead Americans than what is necessary! But people like you are willing to sacrifice those few, useless Americans, so long as you get one woman to serve in an infantry unit! Most of us are not willing to sacrifice more American soldiers so as to make ONE person happy!
The US Military "discriminates" against MEN all the time! If a Marine cannot keep up during physical training, he isn't promoted, he is passed over for MOS offers and ultimately he is discharged or not allowed to re-enlist! If a Marine causes disruption of the cohesion in a combat unit, he is discriminated against and is kicked out of the unit or even worse, marked that they "would NOT want to go to combat" with that Marine - his career is OVER!
The military isn't about what is best for the promotion and career paths of neither FEMALES nor MALES; it is about what is best for the protection of the United States! Any idea or change that does not OBVIOUSLY add to the current combat efficiency of the services is a DIRECT THREAT to the lives of the great men and women who volunteer to serve and to the United States as a whole!
If they can pass the same
If they can pass the same tests as men then they can do the same jobs.
This article seems to say: Women don't pass the physical tests as often as men do and they seem to get hurt easier; therefore all women should not be allow to fight.
WHo cares if only 10% of all women can physically handle combat? That's 10% more grunts than you had yesterday.
Yes!
Considering most Americans are not fit to serve, and there are so few who are both willing AND able to do so, especially in the infantry, we should be proud and welcoming of anyone, male or female, who can do the job.
NO Women Pass The Same Test As Men
None of the physical tests in the military are the same for women.
"10%"? You won't see 1% pass.
Not true
I was a career Reconnaissance Man and served an instructor tour at the Naval Dive Salvage Training Center teaching the Marine Combatant Diver course. It is a Navy schoolhouse, and the Center of Excellence for the entire military diving community.
Women in the Navy Diver program must conform to the EXACT same physical standards as men. Every run and swim time is the same. There are no modified movements, and no alternates (i.e. Flexed Arm Hang instead of Pullups). A pushup is the same, and women must perform the same numbers. PT and working underwater is a daily way of life at dive school. Even during classroom periods of instruction, it is very common to perform hundreds of reps as "incentive" to stay awake in class, or to answer correctly when quizzed by the instructor.
The women I saw completing the 2nd Class Diver or EOD programs were harder than petrified woodpecker lips, and I would put them underwater any day of the week.
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