The Marine Corps Times recently published a handful of articles in regard to opening Infantry Officer Course (IOC) to females and the possibility of integrating women into the infantry community. In mid-April the Commandant directed the “integration” of the first wave of female officers into IOC this summer following completion of The Basic School (TBS). This action may or may not pave the way for female Marines to serve in the infantry as the results remain to be seen. However, before the Marine Corps moves forward with this concept, should we not ask the hard questions and gain opinions of combat-experienced Marines (male and female alike) as to the purpose, the impact, and the gains from such a move? As a combat-experienced Marine officer, and a female, I am here to tell you that we are not all created equal, and attempting to place females in the infantry will not improve the Marine Corps as the Nation’s force-in-readiness or improve our national security.
As a company grade 1302 combat engineer officer with 5 years of active service and two combat deployments, one to Iraq and the other to Afghanistan, I was able to participate in and lead numerous combat operations. In Iraq as the II MEF Director, Lioness Program, I served as a subject matter expert for II MEF, assisting regimental and battalion commanders on ways to integrate female Marines into combat operations. I primarily focused on expanding the mission of the Lioness Program from searching females to engaging local nationals and information gathering, broadening the ways females were being used in a wide variety of combat operations from census patrols to raids. In Afghanistan I deployed as a 1302 and led a combat engineer platoon in direct support of Regimental Combat Team 8, specifically operating out of the Upper Sangin Valley. My platoon operated for months at a time, constructing patrol bases (PBs) in support of 3d Battalion, 5th Marines; 1st Battalion, 5th Marines; 2d Reconnaissance Battalion; and 3d Battalion, 4th Marines. This combat experience, in particular, compelled me to raise concern over the direction and overall reasoning behind opening the 03XX field.
Who is driving this agenda? I am not personally hearing female Marines, enlisted or officer, pounding on the doors of Congress claiming that their inability to serve in the infantry violates their right to equality. Shockingly, this isn’t even a congressional agenda. This issue is being pushed by several groups, one of which is a small committee of civilians appointed by the Secretary of Defense called the Defense Advisory Committee on Women in the Service (DACOWITS). Their mission is to advise the Department of Defense (DoD) on recommendations, as well as matters of policy, pertaining to the well-being of women in the Armed Services from recruiting to employment. Members are selected based on their prior military experience or experience with women’s workforce issues. I certainly applaud and appreciate DACOWITS’ mission; however, as it pertains to the issue of women in the infantry, it’s very surprising to see that none of the committee members are on active duty or have any recent combat or relevant operational experience relating to the issue they are attempting to change. I say this because, at the end of the day, it’s the active duty servicemember who will ultimately deal with the results of their initiatives, not those on the outside looking in. As of now, the Marine Corps hasn’t been directed to integrate, but perhaps the Corps is anticipating the inevitable—DoD pressuring the Corps to comply with DACOWITS’ agenda as the Army has already “rogered up” to full integration. Regardless of what the Army decides to do, it’s critical to emphasize that we are not the Army; our operational speed and tempo, along with our overall mission as the Nation’s amphibious force-in-readiness, are fundamentally different than that of our sister Service. By no means is this distinction intended as disrespectful to our incredible Army. My main point is simply to state that the Marine Corps and the Army are different; even if the Army ultimately does fully integrate all military occupational fields, that doesn’t mean the Corps should follow suit.
I understand that there are female servicemembers who have proven themselves to be physically, mentally, and morally capable of leading and executing combat-type operations; as a result, some of these Marines may feel qualified for the chance of taking on the role of 0302. In the end, my main concern is not whether women are capable of conducting combat operations, as we have already proven that we can hold our own in some very difficult combat situations; instead, my main concern is a question of longevity. Can women endure the physical and physiological rigors of sustained combat operations, and are we willing to accept the attrition and medical issues that go along with integration?
As a young lieutenant, I fit the mold of a female who would have had a shot at completing IOC, and I am sure there was a time in my life where I would have volunteered to be an infantryman. I was a star ice hockey player at Bowdoin College, a small elite college in Maine, with a major in government and law. At 5 feet 3 inches I was squatting 200 pounds and benching 145 pounds when I graduated in 2007. I completed Officer Candidates School (OCS) ranked 4 of 52 candidates, graduated 48 of 261 from TBS, and finished second at MOS school. I also repeatedly scored far above average in all female-based physical fitness tests (for example, earning a 292 out of 300 on the Marine physical fitness test). Five years later, I am physically not the woman I once was and my views have greatly changed on the possibility of women having successful long careers while serving in the infantry. I can say from firsthand experience in Iraq and Afghanistan, and not just emotion, that we haven’t even begun to analyze and comprehend the gender-specific medical issues and overall physical toll continuous combat operations will have on females.
I was a motivated, resilient second lieutenant when I deployed to Iraq for 10 months, traveling across the Marine area of operations (AO) and participating in numerous combat operations. Yet, due to the excessive amount of time I spent in full combat load, I was diagnosed with a severe case of restless leg syndrome. My spine had compressed on nerves in my lower back causing neuropathy which compounded the symptoms of restless leg syndrome. While this injury has certainly not been enjoyable, Iraq was a pleasant experience compared to the experiences I endured during my deployment to Afghanistan. At the beginning of my tour in Helmand Province, I was physically capable of conducting combat operations for weeks at a time, remaining in my gear for days if necessary and averaging 16-hour days of engineering operations in the heart of Sangin, one of the most kinetic and challenging AOs in the country. There were numerous occasions where I was sent to a grid coordinate and told to build a PB from the ground up, serving not only as the mission commander but also the base commander until the occupants (infantry units) arrived 5 days later. In most of these situations, I had a sergeant as my assistant commander, and the remainder of my platoon consisted of young, motivated NCOs. I was the senior Marine making the final decisions on construction concerns, along with 24-hour base defense and leading 30 Marines at any given time. The physical strain of enduring combat operations and the stress of being responsible for the lives and well-being of such a young group in an extremely kinetic environment were compounded by lack of sleep, which ultimately took a physical toll on my body that I couldn’t have foreseen.
By the fifth month into the deployment, I had muscle atrophy in my thighs that was causing me to constantly trip and my legs to buckle with the slightest grade change. My agility during firefights and mobility on and off vehicles and perimeter walls was seriously hindering my response time and overall capability. It was evident that stress and muscular deterioration was affecting everyone regardless of gender; however, the rate of my deterioration was noticeably faster than that of male Marines and further compounded by gender-specific medical conditions. At the end of the 7-month deployment, and the construction of 18 PBs later, I had lost 17 pounds and was diagnosed with polycystic ovarian syndrome (which personally resulted in infertility, but is not a genetic trend in my family), which was brought on by the chemical and physical changes endured during deployment. Regardless of my deteriorating physical stature, I was extremely successful during both of my combat tours, serving beside my infantry brethren and gaining the respect of every unit I supported. Regardless, I can say with 100 percent assurance that despite my accomplishments, there is no way I could endure the physical demands of the infantrymen whom I worked beside as their combat load and constant deployment cycle would leave me facing medical separation long before the option of retirement. I understand that everyone is affected differently; however, I am confident that should the Marine Corps attempt to fully integrate women into the infantry, we as an institution are going to experience a colossal increase in crippling and career-ending medical conditions for females.
There is a drastic shortage of historical data on female attrition or medical ailments of women who have executed sustained combat operations. This said, we need only to review the statistics from our entry-level schools to realize that there is a significant difference in the physical longevity between male and female Marines. At OCS the attrition rate for female candidates in 2011 was historically low at 40 percent, while the male candidates attrite at a much lower rate of 16 percent. Of candidates who were dropped from training because they were injured or not physically qualified, females were breaking at a much higher rate than males, 14 percent versus 4 percent. The same trends were seen at TBS in 2011; the attrition rate for females was 13 percent versus 5 percent for males, and 5 percent of females were found not physically qualified compared with 1 percent of males. Further, both of these training venues have physical fitness standards that are easier for females; at IOC there is one standard regardless of gender. The attrition rate for males attending IOC in 2011 was 17 percent. Should female Marines ultimately attend IOC, we can expect significantly higher attrition rates and long-term injuries for women.
There have been many working groups and formal discussions recently addressing what changes would be necessary to the current IOC period of instruction in order to accommodate both genders without producing an underdeveloped or incapable infantry officer. Not once was the word “lower” used, but let’s be honest, “modifying” a standard so that less physically or mentally capable individuals (male or female) can complete a task is called “lowering the standard”! The bottom line is that the enemy doesn’t discriminate, rounds will not slow down, and combat loads don’t get any lighter, regardless of gender or capability. Even more so, the burden of command does not diminish for a male or female; a leader must gain the respect and trust of his/her Marines in combat. Not being able to physically execute to the standards already established at IOC, which have been battle tested and proven, will produce a slower operational speed and tempo resulting in increased time of exposure to enemy forces and a higher risk of combat injury or death. For this reason alone, I would ask everyone to step back and ask themselves, does this integration solely benefit the individual or the Marine Corps as a whole, as every leader’s focus should be on the needs of the institution and the Nation, not the individual?
Which leads one to really wonder, what is the benefit of this potential change? The Marine Corps is not in a shortage of willing and capable young male second lieutenants who would gladly take on the role of infantry officers. In fact we have men fighting to be assigned to the coveted position of 0302. In 2011, 30 percent of graduating TBS lieutenants listed infantry in their top three requested MOSs. Of those 30 percent, only 47 percent were given the MOS. On the other hand, perhaps this integration is an effort to remove the glass ceiling that some observers feel exists for women when it comes to promotions to general officer ranks. Opening combat arms MOSs, particularly the infantry, such observers argue, allows women to gain the necessary exposure of leading Marines in combat, which will then arguably increase the chances for female Marines serving in strategic leadership assignments. As stated above, I have full faith that female Marines can successfully serve in just about every MOS aside from the infantry. Even if a female can meet the short-term physical, mental, and moral leadership requirements of an infantry officer, by the time that she is eligible to serve in a strategic leadership position, at the 20-year mark or beyond, there is a miniscule probability that she’ll be physically capable of serving at all. Again, it becomes a question of longevity.
Despite my personal opinion regarding the incorporation of females into the infantry community, I am not blind to the fact that females play a key role in countering the gender and cultural barriers we are facing at war, and we do have a place in combat operations. As such, a potential change that I do recommend considering strongly for female Marine officers is to designate a new secondary MOS (0305) for a Marine serving as female engagement team (FET) officer in charge (OIC). 0305s would be employed in the same way we employ drill instructors, as we do not need an enduring FET entity but an existing capability able to stand up based on operational requirements. Legitimizing a program that is already operational in the Corps would greatly benefit both the units utilizing FETs and the women who serve as FET OICs. Unfortunately, FET OICs today are not properly screened and trained for this mission. I propose that those being considered for FET OIC be prescreened and trained through a modified IOC with an appropriately adjusted physical expectation. FET OICs need to better understand the infantry culture and mindset and work with their 0302 brethren to incorporate FET assistance during specific phases of operations to properly prepare them to serve as the subject matter experts to a regimental- or battalion-level infantry commander. Through joint OIC training, both 0302s and FET OICs can start to learn how to integrate capabilities and accomplish their mission individually and collectively. This, in my mind, is a much more viable, cost-effective solution, with high reward for the Marine Corps and the Nation, and it will also directly improve the capabilities of FET OICs.
Finally, what are the Marine Corps standards, particularly physical fitness standards, based on—performance and capability or equality? We abide by numerous discriminators, such as height and weight standards. As multiple Marine Corps Gazette articles have highlighted, Marines who can run first-class physical fitness tests and who have superior MOS proficiency are separated from the Service if they do not meet the Marine Corps’ height and weight standards. Further, tall Marines are restricted from flying specific platforms, and color blind Marines are faced with similar restrictions. We recognize differences in mental capabilities of Marines when we administer the Armed Services Vocational Aptitude Battery and use the results to eliminate/open specific fields. These standards are designed to ensure safety, quality, and the opportunity to be placed in a field in which one can sustain and succeed.
Which once again leads me, as a ground combat-experienced female Marine Corps officer, to ask, what are we trying to accomplish by attempting to fully integrate women into the infantry? For those who dictate policy, changing the current restrictions associated with women in the infantry may not seem significant to the way the Marine Corps operates. I vehemently disagree; this potential change will rock the foundation of our Corps for the worse and will weaken what has been since 1775 the world’s most lethal fighting force. In the end, for DACOWITS and any other individual or organization looking to increase opportunities for female Marines, I applaud your efforts and say thank you. However, for the long-term health of our female Marines, the Marine Corps, and U.S. national security, steer clear of the Marine infantry community when calling for more opportunities for females. Let’s embrace our differences to further hone in on the Corps’ success instead of dismantling who we are to achieve a political agenda. Regardless of the outcome, we will be “Semper Fidelis” and remain focused on our mission to protect and defend the United States of America.




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Comments
Hypocrisy
I like that there's all this panic to protect women from the dangers and stresses of combat, but thousands of male soldiers coming home emotionally and physically wounded beyond repair is just business as usual.
STAY OFF THE BATTLE FIELD
Fly, you have proven yourself in that area...YOU WILL GET PEOPLE KILLED OTHERWISE.
solid article
well written by someone in the field. Hard to take someone seriously if they've never rucked up a mountain.
Women in combat
There are cogent arguments-concerns on both sides;but on the impact of national security ;.None are worth the time!
And there may be a hidden benefit-a prosecution of female generals for "hitting' on" junior male officers.Wow what a potential national security threat!
There are capable women out there
You may not have been capable, but if a female can pass tests and perform tasks in training just as well as the guys, then she should have her chance.
There are girls out there who max the guys portion of physical tests, there are female EOD officers and Sub officers...it is only a matter of time until women will also make up part of the infantry.
This article makes way too many generalizations. Although the issue was not officially brought up by females seeking these positions, they may have been the ones to bring it to the civilian board. It is dangerous to assume that "they don't know because they are not actuive duty." That kind of thinking is what leads to our civil-military divide.
Passing the physical test is
Passing the physical test is nothing. And it's nothing compared to what combat-related positions require of you.
Not All Equal
Yes, it's always an outside minority pushing their agenda that ruins it for everyone.
Call it the Tyranny of the Minority.
You can change public policy but you can't change human biology.
All this will accomplish is getting people unnecessarily killed.
The female grunts, by reaching the point of exhaustion and becoming combat ineffective at the worst possible time, and the male grunt beside her who either winds up with his flank exposed because of it or is forced by conscience to abandon his position to rescue his weaker comrade, also exposing others to greater danger. And for what? Political correctness?
And don't bother trotting out the tired old "there was resistance to racial integration once, too" argument. Racism is purely a mental construct with no empirical evidence to back it. The Marine who wrote this article speaks from real world experience.
No to the wicked President
More destruction of America by the wicked man in the White House.
just remove the combat requirement
Change the requirements to be considered for higher rank. How hard would that be? My daughter trained for an army FET team and changed dramatically in her demeanor. She was harder, coarser; she had to be but it was disturbing non-the less. Thank the Lord she was promoted and was moved to a desk job so served on the base instead of out in the field. She came home safely to her son and husband and relatively intact. I wonder if she had remained with the infantry how much permanent change would have occurred.
This is just a fact of life
I served many years ago on the front line. I watch my brothers fight and die for this country. I personally have watched my friends be shot right in front of me and have taken several bullets in the chest myself. I can tell you from expericence that when we were were fighting for our lives, we knew that we were all equal as brothers. I knew i would die for anyone of my brothers if i had to because we had a bond that was stronger that steel. My personal opinion is that when ever women work their way into an organization, the goal shifts from getting the task done, to the personal comfort of women. I am sorry to say this, but we have seen it all throughout life today. Look back when women started getting into the military, they didnt not have to fight on the front lines because we realized that men and women are built differently and when women are put into combat, the unit now has to acomidate the female soldiers instead of them molding to the positions. Look at female requirements in the military now. Women have lower standards all across the board and they still cant compete. Women pose a huge risk for the health and well bEing of the military and national security. These actions will come back to haunt us and the sad part is because of political correctness, we cant fight back. The laws are being made not my members of the military, but by civilians who believe that "everything jas to be fair and equal". They live in a delusional world, sitting in there nice well paid goverment or nonprofit job sitting on their ass all day never having the face the realities of life. I wish we could turn back the clock and fix the political correct attitude that we have come to today, but the sad thing is the only way it will be fixed os if the public has to actually fight for their rights, and the only way that will happen is another world war. Sorry to say, but i would not mind teaching thos little girls that life is not all butterflies and daisys and that that worthless pr job does not give you any meaning in life. That you are not the center of the universe and that men are the ones fighting and dieing for your rights (with the exception of a few women who end up being more of a libility than an asset).
Not equal.
All you females that are posting on here think you can go 4 months without a shower. Carry well over 100lbs extra worth of gear through the hottest shit holes, up the steepest mountains every day,every fucking night, Without compromising the mission by "bitching out" and not carrying your share of the load, Go right ahead, but I'm sure there's not that manny women out there that can be a grunt. Only true grunts know.
Life liberty and fighting
Let every citizen bear the cost of liberty, and let the results of any conflict be the ultimate judge of a society and it's survival.
I'm sure that some women
I'm sure that some women would make excellent front line fighters. If things got so bad that we didn't have enough men to fight, if the existance of the country was in question, I'd have every one willing to fight on the front lines. I'd have 15 and 16 year old kids fighting too. The society has always put a higher value on the lives of women and children. Just because they can fight effectively, doesn't mean they should. Until it is necessary, there is no reason for it.
She couldnt hack it, so no female can?
I think its funny she nicely insulted the Army as the marines always do. I am former parachute infantry, Ranger qualified grunt. She is right about most except where the Army could do it but not the marines. The marines have already started putting females officers through marine infantry training. The Army is a bigger force so it takes more time to do things. The Army will have a hard time integrating females into its Airborne infantry units, Special Forces units and Special operations units like CAG and above. The Army has talked about it but hasnt even tried it like the marines have. The department of the Navy loves the media as you see with Seals and Marine being postered all over everything so as I suspected the marines will lead the way trying to integrate women into its infantry. Marines tend to be brainwashed and over confident about their abilities so I think maybe female marines should have the chance. Every Marine is a rifleman right. Ask any marine, they are all 0311. That isnt said in the Army, our non grunts know they arent the same.
Chicks in combat
My team has no women and it would be nice to have some hotties running around. Sadly, I'm sure all we are going to see is some bull dykes with something to prove.
"Lo que sea, cuando sea, donde sea"
If you say so...
Females in our military complain about and file lawsuits against so-called sexual assaults while asserting they are capable of facing the ( male ) enemy in a war zone...lol.
Women in the Military
A. Sexual Equality is linguistically an oxymoron and, realistically, an unattainable goal.
B. Older editions of Webster's Dictionary defined "feminism" as a cult.
C. Capt. Katie Petronio is perhaps the finest example of the aforesaid cult.
D. There is nothing feminine about Capt. Petronio's Resumé or background.
E. Although highly intelligent, she is attempting to synergize the patently absurd.
F. Capt. Petronio is a man's education trapped in a woman's body.
G. She's a U. S. Marine and a damned good one.
Drafted n' Shafted n' Kicked to the Curb.
Rat Pack '69
Weight
Actually let's think the weight thing a little better.
Armor- 35-40 LBs depending on plate size
Ruck - 70-90 LBs depending on ammo/etc/duration
Weapons 12-22 LBs depending on weapon system
So minimum weight is 117, with a possible maximum of 152+
That is just YOUR equipment, that is not including having to drag anyone to safety and their equipment weight which with their body weight could top 300+ LBs.
SSG Baker
US Army
25B/11B
The Purpose of Putting Women into Combat
The purpose of putting women into combat is so that American mix-gendered units will fail and fail miserably.
It would be politically incorrect to report that military failure came from female warriors the same way it's politically incorrect to say the mass murder from an Army Officer in Fort Hood was an act of foreign influenced Islamic domestic terrorism.
The resultant knee-jerk decision post after action report will demand that we have forced conscription. Forced conscription is but another characteristic of a government looking to further enslave its population and threaten their neighbors.
Combat has always had only one objective--win. Whenever I play competitively, I always try to stack everything in my favor. Likewise, if I can negatively influence my competitor to fail, I stymie his efforst.
Mixed gender combat units and females in combat directly attack the once focused political objective of surviving.
If we as a nation really cared about the issue of surviving war, every female inside the military, married into the military, or supporting the military would firmly secure an unburnt bra around her chest and tell the agenda driven beltway bandits to shove it up their 6.
Yes, girls, I'm directing this straight at you. The top brass just declared you 100% equal. Either pony up your beautiful bodies to be collectively ripped and shattered in ruthless combat, or Spartan up and tell these thong-wearing limp wristed Congressional/Oval office types that only men should be sent into combat and come home either with their shields or on them.
To Women, kill feminist pride or watch that pride kill the entire nation. Give us men our Natural role. Realize the difference between the genders so that men can do what men are better built to do. You give us our Homes. And, you give us men our reason to defend the very same. Our nation's enemies would never grant what is universally enjoyed in the United States of America.
Women in Combat
Chesty Puller must be rolling in his grave.
Smart, capable, strong and
Smart, capable, strong and with the heart to do it. SO, FIGURE OUT HOW TO EFFECTIVELY INTEGRATE WOMEN IN THE INFANTRY. Improvise, adapt, overcome!
First into Combat with the toughest Duty
I come from a Navy family and have two Marine brothers-in-law and Capt. Petronio is a true Marine -- first into combat and taking on the toughest assignment. In this case the truth taking on the ideological fantasy. But how many more women will have to suffer before this madness and other transformative policies like it are challenged?
Graham Combs/Royal Oak, MI, USA
Polycystic Ovary Syndrome ( or PCOS )
I'd like to correct a factual inaccuracy from the article.
Doctors do not really know what causes PCOS, though there are indications that it is genetic and tends to run in families.
In this case, as regrettable as it is that she suffers from PCOS, it's a good bet that Capt. Petronio's PCOS is partly responsible for giving her the extra androgens that made her more physically capable of handling combat-type duties... and not the other way around.
Big Boys Don't Cry
I think it's important to note what she says here:
---------------------------------------------------------
"It was evident that stress and muscular deterioration was affecting everyone regardless of gender; however, the rate of my deterioration was noticeably faster than that of male Marines and further compounded by gender-specific medical conditions."
---------------------------------------------------------
One possibility might be that it was not so much that her rate of deterioration was all that much faster, but that she was more comfortable than her male colleagues in openly acknowledging said deterioration when she first began to find it troubling? Because big boys don't cry, etc. etc. and culture eats best practices for breakfast every day.
SOF/SPECWAR
For SOF/SPECWAR purposes, picture this:
A young American female actually makes it through the grueling two year selection/training cycle for Special Forces, then makes it through the year of Group and A-Team IFAM training cycles and is finally deemed combat ready. She is selected to be a member of a Strategic Recon four person team to be deployed to a hostile, desert, Islamic country. After a two week isolation work-up, the team helo-inserts, then with each carrying 130 pound combat packs, they infil 10 Km to the hide site over 4,000 foot mountain passes. At the SR site, they dig a 6x6x4 ft hidey hole, camo it and crawl in before the sun comes up. The team remains on target, hidden in the hidey hole for five straight days and nights. No one leaves the confines of the hide site for the duration of the five day SR mission. The three men and the one woman work for four hours on, four hours back-up, four hours off, non-stop, in an extremely cramped coffin-for-four, continuously for 120 hours, in 120 degree daytime heat and 48 degree nights. They watch, take copious notes, work the commo, eat, drink, sleep, piss & crap in plastic bags, wipe-up, swelter and freeze for FIVE days in their little hell hole, shoulder-to-shoulder, NO privacy, living in their underwear and combat shirts. The stench and grime become revolting. The work cycle finally takes its toll and the team begins to hallucinate. As five days end, now they have to bury the site, camo it again, and cautiously exfil their heavy loads 10 Km to the pick-up HLZ. Oh, I forgot to mention, the female has been square in the middle of her monthly menstruation period for the duration of the infil, hide and exfil.
Now, do you think there's maybe some issues the DC policy makers have failed to imagine in their rush to allow females to enter the SOF community?
Well, how about a different scenario, where a female is included in a 16 hour SDV mission? This mission is unfreaking real for the supermen SEALS who do it every day.
The list goes on and on.
We have allowed the argument to be co-opted from "mission first" to "social equality first". Especially for SOF, this move is total, radical insanity. The concept the progressives are forcing upon our community bends reality into farce.
Its the mission folks. The Mission! This is NOT about female ability!
woman can be in combat, just not infantry.
i am all for women serving in combat, my father is a Navy F/18 pilot and now teaches many pilot students and he said that some of the best pilots he has ever taught were women. So it is clear that women can be effective, but in infantry they will not serve effectively and put the lives of others in risk. First off men are physically stronger, so if a 200 pound man is wounded in combat and needs to be carried out and the only other squadmate there is a women, would she be able to carry him out. Also a lot of times on deployment you must go weeks and sometimes months withouta shower and women would surely develop a yeast infection. Also women are a distraction to men, men are naturally going to protect/save a women over a man. Women have a great role in combat, but no role in the infantry because when you're fighting for rights and it comes down to costing the lives of others, its definitely not worth it.
spec ops
please dont even get me started on the idea of having women serving in special operations
Not sure I can even carry my dead weight
I'm a former squid, and I think women can do almost anything on a ship, plane, or FOB as well as men. But if I get shot and need to get carried 100 yards to relative safety under fire, I want it to be a slightly insane 200 lb guy that does it.
Bryan Monteith
Cause, if he's not slightly
Cause, if he's not slightly insane, he probably won't venture out to where I just got shot
Women in combat
First of all, there are different standards on PT tests for men and women. The woman's center of gravity is lower than that of men and hearts and lungs vary in size. Therefore women have to do less pushups, situps, and the run.
Also, in an Army military school I had to do a paper on women in combat. The information I found was about women in the Israeli military. They found out that after fighting on the frontlines, women had trouble adjusting emotionally. A woman's make-up is more towards nurturing, and a man's make-up is more towards protection. While individuals can switch these roles, as a rule these are gender related.
I am a retired soldier. I started out as a WAC.
above post
When I referred to the run, I meant that men and women had different time limits for their age group and sex.
Also I forgot to give my name. It is SSG Kathleen Ball
The issue is that the
The issue is that the so-called "feminists" who are currently sitting at Starbucks, sipping an $8 latte, with their iPads and $80 "vintage" dresses disagree with women who've actually served in the military. See, they believe that they're just like men. And in a lot of ways they are...if you only focus on their counterparts who are also currently sitting at Starbucks, sipping an $8 latte, with their iPads and $80 "ironic" sweaters. They've never had to go through any grueling physical activity...although they would argue that hot yoga and riding a bike 2 blocks is, indeed, grueling. They've never reallly had to face any hardships...although getting that art degree paid by their mommies and daddies must've been so tough! And they'll never actually be the ones to join the military, let alone partake in the combat positions.
Long story short, women who "never will" are incapable of understanding the women who "already did".
spelling
Mark Twain was a great American writer, and his spelling was atrocious, yet he had no trouble communicating. (His spelling was corrected before publication.)
For all you know, this fourteen-year-old is gifted in many other ways than being able to accomodate herself to spelling conventions. And spelling is, after all, merely a convention. If you doubt that, familiarize yourself with the spelling of the Elizabethan era, which age was the high water mark of English usage.
end discrimination now
We need to end all separate but equal processing within the Marine Corps; process the women through boot camp, OCS, TBS etc alongside the men, same barracks, same head, same mess hall, everything. There might be some sexual attraction within the ranks but we already have that with gays integrated into each unit. The genders need to become accustomed to living in close proximity and it needs to start in boot camp. Male recruitment might even increase!
Ridiculous
Ridiculous.
Females in Combat.
The only women men should fight with are their wives.
Females in Combat.
PS. & Then only if there's no way out!
Women in infantry versus Women in Combat
While I agree that women probably could not succeed int he long term in infantry combat operations, there are many "combat" roles that women can perform. Artillery, combat pilots, tank crew, engineers to name a few...i think we confuse infantry and combat roles, infantry is NOt the be all and end all of combat, there are other combat roles that women can surely thrive in.
Entertaining
This is hilarious. Why wouldn't a woman be able to not shower for 4 months? Or be able to shoot some dick in the face if he is threatening the life of those around me. I am a chick, and although I would never want to be in the military I could do both those things easily.
WRONG.
You have no idea about the physical stress of being deployed in the infantry. Even in this modern era of warfare, the infantry still has to fight hand to hand at times in brutal house to house fighting. Our soldiers are also taken prisoner, women would not fare well when captured, we have vulnerabilites men do not have due to our biology.
If we women are actually physically equal to men and capable of fighting men in combat then why is it women are held to lower physical standards to join the military in the first place for any position. The top performing female recurits would barely qualify if they were held to male standards. The vast majority of them would not qualify at all if they were held to male standards. You know why we have different standards? Because women don't have the physical ability that men do and making us meet the same standards as men would mean almost no women would be able to serve in any capacity in the military. Even the Air Force has standards for men that most female recruits would not be able to meet.
I served in the Army, and neither I nor any woman I served with would be able to measure up with the men that serve in our infantry.
The decision to admit women to the infantry degradges the national security of the United States.
Ask yourself if women really were as physically capable why is there such a societal stigma against hitting women? Why is it that we have seperate sports leagues for women? Easy answers, because even a weak man is stronger than most women and if women were forced to play in the same sports leagues as men at the collegiate or pro levels without the benefit of some system of quotas forcing those teams to accept inferior female athletes, then our daughters would never have the opprotunity to participate in athletics. Serena Williams, one of the most physically dominant female athletes of all time was once asked if she could beat any of the male pro tennis players, she answered absolutely not because the men are bigger, stronger, and faster.
Wont pull the triger huh?
http://www.nellis.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123302183
end all discrimination
Women should be integrated into combat units, and the process needs to start in boot camp and OCS. end gender separation; have the men and women share the same facilities, barracks, heads, chow halls, training, everything. There might be some sexual tension but we already experience that with our gay Marines. They will live together in the field and they need to train the same way.
Great article
Great article. I wish I had her writing ablity to convey, with such clairty, her point of view.
S/F
The Elephant in the room here is the female draft
There is a huge differencebetweena woman choosing toserve and the inevitable being forced to serve (in combat infantry!!). They will besending young women like lambs to a slaughter, grossly decreasing the effectiveness and safety of everyone else to boot, all in the career interests of a few self interested female career officers. Like so many of the Left PC social agenda, the HUGE statistics on the death, and social dysfunction will be ignored y the Political elite and the Media. Like the much vaunted "Sexual Revolution" has given us a scenario where 25% of American teenage girls now have an STD (Center for disease Control), a persistent and low level genocidal nature of these policies in weakening and killing of American society goes unaddressed. WWI and WWII destroyed two generations of the best of European men; we are now setting the stage for a generation of American young women to follow suit. In the Art of War Sun Tzu is clear-it is better to defeat your enemy without having exhausted one's forces in combat. To throw many tens of thousands of young women, inherently inferior as combat soldiers, into the carnage and horrors of war, is aridiculous folly and at the end of the day a nationexacting a sort of genocide on itself, sacrificing these young women on an altar of political correctness.
If women are equal physically
If women are equal physically to me why are the Olympics separated into male and female categories
Scared of the Future.
I'm a USMC PLC member and have already witnessed the gender issue, prior to even earning a commission. There's no valid justification for affirmative action in the United States Military. First selection board my scores match a woman's in all areas except PT, where my 291 is beaten by the female score of a 279. We need the best candidates, the best qualified and the most capable.
When observing attrition rates of males vs females it becomes pretty apperent that there's a biological difference. The pt tests may be different between men and women but the weight of your rifle and equipment doesn't care if you can pee standing up or not.
video response
That video pissed me off, I'm a female and I take martial arts. I push myslef everytime. Gender my ass, if you can't handle the shit go the fuck and stay in the kitchen.
Ladies....c'mon....
I am a female, and though I max the male standard PT test, I firmly believe that females should not be allowed to branch infantry. Many females in my battalion can't even handle 40lb rucks that we only carry over the weekend, and to add to it, the terrain we march on mostly consists of roads...so I can't imagine too many females attempting to last in Afghan terrain. Sure, there are a lot of strong females out there, but with cutbacks as they are, are we really willing to risk spending (and ultimately lives), to make a point amongst a political issue? I am so grateful for those MEN in the infantry who bust their ass to accomplish the impossible. Though I believe women often play an important role in our Armed Forces; simply put, women are not made for infantry.
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