Proficiency and Conduct Marks
April 3, 2012How many Marines reading this blog (serving and retired) remember having a leader discuss the ‘Marine Corps’ definitions of the qualities and attributes that are assessed when determining our Proficiency and Conduct marks?
Likewise, how many leaders reading this blog are fulfilling their duty to have such discussions with those who look to them for leadership, when determining their marks?
As our youngest Marines are evaluated utilizing Proficiency and Conduct marks, I believe that such discussions are absolutely essential to sustaining the transformation!
Guided discussions have proven to be a very effective leadership tool that ensures, by mutual understanding, that the efforts of leaders and subordinates alike are oriented toward increased individual and unit effectiveness.
Para 4005.6.a. of the IRAM specifies, “In addition to the observance of the letter of law and regulations, conduct includes conformance to accepted usage and custom, and positive contributions to unit and Corps. General bearing, attitude, interest, reliability, courtesy, cooperation, obedience, adaptability, influence on others, moral fitness, physical fitness as affected by clean and temperate habits, and participation in unit activities not directly related to unit mission, are all factors of conduct and should be considered in evaluating the Marine.”
Page 4-41 of the IRAM identifies the standards of conduct and also specifies that leaders must carefully consider the Marine’s demonstrated levels of the qualities and attributes listed in Para 4005.6.a. (provided above).
Para 4005.7.a of the IRAM specifies that the duty proficiency mark “should indicate how well a Marine performed the primary duty during the marking period. In addition to technical skills and specialized knowledge, the ‘whole Marine concept’ must be considered. Such attributes as mission accomplishment, leadership, intellect and wisdom, individual character, physical fitness, personal appearance, and completion of professional military education, Marine Corps Institute Courses and off duty education should also be evaluated and incorporated. Due allowance should be made when a Marine is fulfilling a billet inconsistent with the Marine’s grade.”
Page 4-43 of the IRAM identifies the standards of proficiency and also specifies that leaders must carefully consider the levels of performance that a Marine attains, as well as the amount of supervision the Marine requires.
The ENLPROMMAN specifies that promotions are authorized on the basis of vacancies existing throughout the Marine Corps. The CMC regulates the number of Marines to be promoted to corporal and sergeant through the use of the automated composite score.
As assigned Proficiency and Conduct marks contribute significantly to a Marine’s composite score, I believe that we need to intensify our efforts to ensure that leaders and subordinates alike understand the qualities and attributes that are being assessed.
Comments
I am amazed...
As I recently walked in to meet a Private sitting his Service Alpha uniform in the S-1 shop, fresh out of SOI, I quickly flipped through his thin record and came uopn his Proficiency and Conduct marks. He only had one score so far, and those were from Recruit Training. After I read his scores, I had to double-check to ensure it was actually his record that I was reading - it was. Then I asked him if he had saved someone's life in boot camp. He didn't know why I was asking, so he laughed and said that he didn't. As a matter of fact, he stated that he was never a squad leader or guide and he wasn't even awarded meritorious PFC. I asked him how in the world he received the Proficiency and Conduct marks that he did out of boot camp, to which replied, "What are Proficiency and Conduct marks, First Sergeant?"
This lack of knowledge, of course, was at no fault to this young Marine, so I quickly described to him what Proficiency and Conduct marks are. I would have assumed that his Drill Instructors would have had a short period of instruction to explain what Proficiency and Conduct marks are and then why each recruit received the ones that they did. This apparently is not happening, or it did not happen in this case.
Either way, I am still absolutely amazed at the Recruit Training Proficiency and Conduct marks that I saw for this 18 year-old Private.
4.8, 4.8.
- A Shocked 1stSgt
First Sergeant, This is a
First Sergeant,
This is a respectful question without the least bit of cynicism, but what do you do as a leader in the situation? For all future pro's and con's do you give him lower scores to average out what he previously recieved or do you just to yourself, "he got a cool one, good on him but from here on out we're going to do this right". I don't think Cpls and below should get FITREPS, but what do you think of the concept like with FITREPS that the pros and cons an individual gives out should be marginalized agaisnt the awarders average. It seems to work on FITREPs to my knowledge, what about pro's and con's?
-Sgt
Pro/Con Marks
I remember my leadership counseling me on every aspect of proficiency and conduct marks. It seems as if we (the Staff Noncommissioned Officers) have forgotten what it takes to lead and mentor. It is true that Rick Hawkins would teach the young warriors of 1/3 at the Staff Club onboard MCB Hawaii every Wednesday. Every First Sergeant was charged with taking the time to mentor each SNCO to ensure the squad leaders knew how to review pro/con marks. I do not know why we went away from this. Much like why we went away from promotion boards within the unit, talking to young Marines over a beer in the club, taking time to get to know everyone under our care, and even talking to those young officers about pro/con marks. It is very important that every Marine from officers to junior Marines understands the standards, expectations, and conduct that embodies our Corps. Semper Fi!
1stSgt W. T. "Skip" Amaker III
Student, United States Army Sergeants Major Academy
Fort Bliss, TX
Pro/Con Marking
Pro/Con markings are a pivotal aspect of our young Marines foundation, and unfortunately there was a fellow 1stSgt asleep at the wheel regarding the young Marine that you encountered. The Recruit Training Order is very specific in guidance regarding the assignment of Pro/Con markings for a new Marine. An average recruit that is neither a billet holder nor a meritorious promotion should receive 4.2/4.2. This is accordance with the IRAM and the Commanding General's guidance. Like the Shocked 1stSgt, I am continually amazed by the number of Marines that have very little knowledge about the IRAM, the PES and the promotion system as a whole. I would offer for consideration that the problem is more systemic. As leaders, we have failed to check the BEQs, get to know our Marines lives and, more importantly, hone the science and art of leadership amongst peers. We have become reliant upon computer programs to calculate pro and con marks in the same manner that we have become dependent upon our Marine to self development. Far too often, we utilize our academies as crutches to teach our Marines the critical tangible leadership attributes that are found in the IRAM, the Marine Corps Manual and mentorship.
Skip, I could not agree with you more. From the highest to lowest levels of leadership, expectations have to be made clear. As a Corps, we have focused a tremendous amount on the "art" of leadership and have failed to learn the science of leading. The Marine Corps Manual states, " Marine Corps Leadership qualities include: (1) Inspiration -- personal example of high moral standards reflecting virtue, honor, patriotism, and subordination in personal behavior and in performance. (2) Technical proficiency -- Knowledge of the military sciences and skill in their application. (3) Moral responsibility -- Personal adherence to high standards of conduct and the guidance of subordinates toward wholesomeness of mind and body." The second bullet mentions the "military sciences", Pro/Con knowledge, assessment and assignment falls in this category. At some point we need to have a leadership intervention. I suggest that it begins with in forums like this.
Ed Parsons
can we help?
Ed,
Thank you for your participation!
We want to do all we can to help foster these conversations, and give you a platform to discuss important topics. Please let us know if there are other ways you think we might help.
And thanks, Rick, for another excellent blog.
Bradley (MCA&F)
Here to serve
You're welcome, Bradley.
I'll do all that I can to keep them relevant and thought provoking.
Semper Fi,
Rick
All Great Points
Leaders,
These are all great points and I concur with the fact that our leaders are asleep at the wheel. Might I add that I believe the Corps has fostered this mentality over the last 7-8 years with low cutting scores and ridiculous bonuses. In Generation Me (those born after 1970), there is a sense of entitlement that leads many to believe they've earned everything they receive. The fact that over the last 8 years many High School educated Sergeants-MGySgts received a yearly salary (during the reenlistment year) of anywhere from $80K-$150K just feeds the monster who believes they've earned what they receive; and they are looking for more.
Sitting in the Academy Director's seat I am amazed daily at the feeling of entitlement in our young Marines (Cpl-GySgt) and the lack of knowledge when it comes to regulations and the evaluations of the Marine and his/her Marines. We at the Academy only have them for 7 weeks and we cannot teach them everything they need to know. Since Gen Me includes many of our 1stSgts/MSgts-Captains, Majors, and CWOs, I believe they've grown up in a Corps where the rules are to be questioned and are up for interpretation. I also believe that the men and women in these ranks feel they are entitled to their promotion and that there is no payback due. In my experience, this is where the work gets harder and your time is no longer your time. The payback I owe is simply everything I have.
Speaking to 179 E8s last week at the E8 seminar was eye-opening in the fact that we have fat E8s in the Corps who do not know how to take care of their Marines. Many of these Marines brought to my attention the fact that they have E9s in charge of them who are unapproachable and arrogant.
I relieved a 1stSgt at my last command and forced him to retire. Another one of my six 1stSgts in that command married one of his former Sgts (still on Active Duty) and is pending Court Martial. We have 1stSgts who are cheating the system because they believe that is their right; and they believe that in doing so, they are taking care of Mariens. A few weeks ago a SgtMaj stood up in front of the 1stSgt's Course and demeaned everyone in the room...why? Because he feels (always has) that he has a right to do so based on his rank that he "earned". That SgtMaj has been banned from speaking at the SNCOA CLNC for more than 18 months now. But, he still has a job in one of the most high-profile billets in the DOD.
Pro/Cons are just one way that we are failing the future generation of Marine Leaders. We are not here to be served, we are here to serve. Our rank is a privledge and we MUST pay it back to the Marines who will someday take our place. Otherwise, we lose this thing called tradition. We cannot sit and complain about why the younger generation is screwed up, we only need to look in the mirror for that answer. We all need to crack open the orders/regulations and feed the masses with information, tradition, and everything that is United States Marine. We OWE it to the next generation of Marines.
SgtMaj Weber
Wow
2 of your 6 First Sergeants wear relieved under your watch? Maybe someone needs to look inside themself first before blasting an entire generation of Marines that have been fighting and winning our wars today. And also, I heard these same complains in the 1970's when I was a Sergeant Major - dealing with druggies and a broken Marine Corps after another long war. It's just 30 years later, that is the only differance.
Pro and con marks.
Just to add a little fuel to the flames, I have to say that the lack of training and caring is not new, or limited to Gen Me. I was in starting in 78, and had to ask many times before someone explained the marking system to me. That someone was the Marine I eventually married - the Master Sgt we had said "you know all that" and walked away when I asked for explanations, or at least knowledge of where I could find the written explanation. It was not in the material I received in Boot, and many of those I asked (Sergeants / Corporals etc) just said "I dunno". Very sad.
Annual Training
I always find it disheartening to hear that leaders are diminishing the Pro & Con marks of privates first class, lance corporals and/or corporals because they have not completed annual training.
I always thought that I was a diligent young Marine, but I cannot ever remember having enough 'horsepower' to assign myself to the range, swim qual, gas chamber, BST, etc.
In my mind, if a young Marine fails to accomplish something, their leaders failed to ensure that they did!
Semper Fi,
Rick
Rick,I have to contest that
Rick,
I have to contest that but it takes two to tango. If a Gunnery Sergeant fails to complete either version of the Advance Course due to his own fault...Is it his leaders fault? That thing can only go but so far. I understand where this person is coming from. For example, I saw two Marines get promoted (one to Cpl the other to Sgt) despite the both of them failing swim qual. The way I see it is that these are basic requirements to even be a Marine. With these promotions, the Marine Corps continues to emphasize the term "competitive" as there are more Marines that allocations. Once a Marine comes under your charge, the senior should law down the law to include their requirements of being a general marine ie fresh shave, clean cammies, annual training requirements etc. than what ever that Marine does or fails to do is on them. It doesnt take much to hop on Marine NET and do the annual training courses. Or ensure you attend swim and rifle qual. Do your PFT etc. But to that Marine who fails to do so out of laziness or BS family problems don't worry about the allocations going to waste...there's another Marine who cared to do his requirements that will pick up the allocation. Gas chamber, they run every Wednesday and the unit can request their own gas chamber training. Let's not be ridiculous.
Gentlemen, their is only so
Gentlemen,
their is only so much a junior enlisted marine can do. for example my rifle qual was almost outdated just before my deployment. being in a new unit that had already done its qual i asked to go to the range with another battalion in the regiment. he told me id get a chance before deployment. well then i chopped over as the scout observer for the infantry unit on the meu. when i asked my mgysgt about requal he told me that the battalion had already done a qual. i asked if once again i could go with another battalion. i was denied and because of the compistion scored got zeroed out do to not quilifying on a range. we have limited power and if our higher ups make a wrong move or choice and dont listen to the needs of the marines who are truly concerned about doin the right thing and staying up to date on their shit. then that is when they have fail.
sincerely,
LCPL of marines
Gentlemen, their is only so
Gentlemen,
their is only so much a junior enlisted marine can do. for example my rifle qual was almost outdated just before my deployment. being in a new unit that had already done its qual i asked to go to the range with another battalion in the regiment. he told me id get a chance before deployment. well then i chopped over as the scout observer for the infantry unit on the meu. when i asked my mgysgt about requal he told me that the battalion had already done a qual. i asked if once again i could go with another battalion. i was denied and because of the compistion scored got zeroed out do to not quilifying on a range. we have limited power and if our higher ups make a wrong move or choice and dont listen to the needs of the marines who are truly concerned about doin the right thing and staying up to date on their shit. then that is when they have fail.
sincerely,
LCPL of marines
Who is the Sergeant Major
Who is the Sergeant Major that "has a job in one of the most high-profile billets in the DOD."? Is it the Sergeant Major of the Marine Corps? Is he banned from speaking at the academy?
-Curious Civilian Marine
Curious Civilian Marine
No, it was not the SMMC. If it was, I'm sure it would be making headlines. Besides, I have seen the SMMC speak and he is probably the best speaker I have heard in a very long time. I suggest you contact Weber to find out.
P.S. - When replying to a specific post, hit the "reply" button underneath. You probably haven't gotten an answer because you replied to the original article witten by Hawens.
PRO/CON's
Does anyone know how they calculate the average marks in service and grade?
Example: A marine has 4.3/4.3 average marks in service and grade, and recieves a 4.6/4.6 on the quarterly markings, how would that adjust his average marks?
its an average just add them
its an average just add them all up and divide by the number of marks
Proficiency marks below 4.0
What are the regulations of giving a Marine proficiency marks below a 4.0? If a Marine is successfully performing daily tasks, going above and beyond by taking on an NCO billet and has first class PFT / CFT, high Mcmap belt, max amount of MCI's completed with no bad paperwork what so ever what would be a reason to recieve the proficiency markings of 3.9?
Proficiency marks below 4.0
What are the regulations of giving a Marine proficiency marks below a 4.0? If a Marine is successfully performing daily tasks, going above and beyond by taking on an NCO billet and has first class PFT / CFT, high Mcmap belt, max amount of MCI's completed with no bad paperwork what so ever what would be a reason to recieve the proficiency markings of 3.9?
None
From my knowledge of the IRAM and all the Mandatory Class Days I have sat through there is no reason. If the Marine you described in the post ubove really has all that done. The only reason would be A) Someone dropped the ball or B) The NCO straight up did not "like" that Marine. The Marine described should have at the very least 4.7 Pros & Cons. The only thing I can think of is BCP. Which is a mandatory 3.9 in both the Pro and Con but from your description of "no bad paperwork" that wouldn't apply.
- Motivated Devil Dog
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